S2E4 - Lessons from Career Missteps - Sara Malo, Taryn Stoddard, and Kali Ashford Speak Out

Jim Banks [00:00:01]:
Okay, so recording. We are live. I say we're live, not live. We're live in the kind of the recording. So welcome to this particular episode of Bad Decisions with Jim Banks. I have got a first today. I've got more than one guest on today, so I have no idea how this episode is going to go down. It could go amazingly well, in which case I'll do more of them moving forward.

Jim Banks [00:00:27]:
It could be the worst experience I've ever had in my life, but we'll just kind of give it a go and see what we end up with. But I had the opportunity a few weeks ago now to attend an affiliate event in London called Afiverse, which was a new event. We'll talk about that on the show. But I had the opportunity to have a couple of drinks at the afterparty with the three ladies that are on this show now. And I put the idea to them about, why don't we record a podcast episode? It's called Bad Decisions with Jim Banks. They all were sort of with me, so they were all making bad decisions. So I just thought it'd be a really, really good episode to kind of pull the three of them on. And I'm delighted to have Sara, Taryn, and Cali as my guests today.

Jim Banks [00:01:08]:
So who wants to say hello for posterity? Come on, somebody.

Taryn Stoddard [00:01:15]:
Oh, we're.

Sara Malo [00:01:16]:
Oh, Little. Thank you, Jim, for having us sign. It was a pleasure to see all three of you at Elevate in London, and I'm just so happy to be here. I think this is going to be fun.

Jim Banks [00:01:28]:
Oh, that's it. It was called Elevate, wasn't it? Not my bad.

Sara Malo [00:01:31]:
Elevate. Yeah, well, it's Affiverse supported it and lead gen 1, so it's cool.

Taryn Stoddard [00:01:38]:
Sarah helped keep that on, so she should know the name. You know, I just go up to things.

Jim Banks [00:01:45]:
So. So, Karen, tell us kind of where you are. And hello, by the way.

Taryn Stoddard [00:01:51]:
Hi.

Sara Malo [00:01:52]:
Hi.

Taryn Stoddard [00:01:52]:
I'm Taryn Stodder, the owner of the Kaiju Group Agency. I'm located in St. Augustine, Florida.

Jim Banks [00:02:00]:
It looks like it's sunny there.

Taryn Stoddard [00:02:03]:
It is perfect weather today. What's it outside right now? Oh, it's 77 degrees and very little humidity. Absolutely gorgeous. I cannot complain.

Jim Banks [00:02:13]:
Perhaps you. Hate you. I'm going to kick you off this podcast episode right now.

Taryn Stoddard [00:02:19]:
I mean, we have another hurricane coming, if that makes anybody feel better. You know, it's the positive and negatives of Florida. I think there is another one that's going to hit south Florida sometime soon. This is really late in the season to do so though.

Jim Banks [00:02:34]:
And Cali.

Kali Ashford [00:02:36]:
I'm Kaylee Ashford. I am the owner and founder of Ad Media Cards where we manage payments for companies that buy ads on Google and Facebook. I've worked in the payment industry for about 20 years now and been managing Ad Media Cards for the last almost nine years. Today I'm in Mocta at a conference and it's warm ish weather. So.

Jim Banks [00:03:03]:
Moved, haven't you. Didn't you move?

Kali Ashford [00:03:06]:
Yes. So I recently just moved to West Palm Beach.

Jim Banks [00:03:10]:
Is that to be new Donald Trump or should we just.

Sara Malo [00:03:17]:
Oh no, no election plaque.

Kali Ashford [00:03:19]:
I just, I don't that those are the only two options that we had. That. That's my take on it. Yeah. Other than that I got out. I left. I left Florida on the 5th on election day and went to Canada. That's how I'm going to politics.

Jim Banks [00:03:37]:
There we go. Yeah, I'm not planning. I'm just talking at all about politics on this particular episode because I just find the whole thing so depressing really. But anyway, that's by the by. So I butchered your name. Right. And are you Sarah or Sarah? Because I never know I was Sarah.

Sara Malo [00:03:58]:
Yeah, my name should be pretty the.

Jim Banks [00:04:02]:
Yeah, it should be.

Sara Malo [00:04:02]:
And I didn't really say what I do, but I laughed because. Because Kaylee and we've been calling her Callie for however many years. My gosh is at Sigma and fun fact, during COVID I actually worked for them for a short time and put on another affiliate event. I don't know if you guys remember ags, but so I'd basically been involved in every event in the industry for the most part.

Taryn Stoddard [00:04:30]:
Yeah, we do know that. Knows everything that's going on.

Jim Banks [00:04:35]:
So yeah. So obviously that's, that's who's on the show today again. I'm super, super excited to have everyone on today. I guess maybe to kind of sort of kick us off. I mean you all know each other through the industry, right? But I think that the kind of the, the thing that kind of binds you all together is Link Unite. Right. So Sarah, you're one of the co founders of Link Unite and perhaps you can kind of just talk to us a little bit about that and kind of what the motivation for setting it up was. Right.

Jim Banks [00:05:07]:
Because I've been in the industry a long time. We've all been in the industry a long time. Right. I've never, I've never really thought about the kind of the disparity between male and female people in the industry. Right. To me it's always been a, an industry where I've, I've surrounded myself with people and I've never really considered the, the kind of, the color of their skin or the gender that they are. Right. But as a sort of white man is probably easy for me to kind of make that, that sort of assumption.

Jim Banks [00:05:37]:
Right. Talk. To talk me a little bit about. I put the shovel down.

Sara Malo [00:05:42]:
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's funny you say that, because when all three of us ladies started, there was very, very few women in this industry. And that's sort of how Link UNITE began because we wanted to have some sort of support for women, draw more women into this industry and lift them up, you know, get more women on stages, you know, support women starting their own businesses. And so that's really where Link UNITE came from. We were actually, I'm located in Massachusetts, and we were at Leeds Con in Boston, and we just started making notes on a napkin. Of all the women that, you know, we knew that Amanda Ferris and myself knew, you know, who do you know, who did you meet? You know, is this, is this woman, you know, she, could she be part of our group, this kind of thing. And we didn't want, we didn't want to, we wanted everybody essentially. You know, we started to where we were drawing in director, leveling up women.

Sara Malo [00:06:41]:
And then we realized, like, we want everybody to be part of Link unite. And we have so many male partners and people like you, Jim, that support us. And so it's growing rapidly. We have a membership, we're doing a mentorship. We just. I had a call this morning with a new event MAU that they're coming to us looking for speakers for their event. And that's what we're here for. We just want to elevate all the women in the industry and anybody that wants to be part of this group.

Sara Malo [00:07:09]:
So we're lucky to have people like Taryn and Krie a part of this.

Jim Banks [00:07:14]:
Yeah. Because I, I think I, I, I probably make the mistake of I called it an initiative and I don't really, I mean, it's, it's. So when you filled in your bio, right. And your bios will obviously be on the kind of the site when we finish the episode, like you call it a community of executive leaders. Right. Which again, I think, I think for me it's, I think that there has been women in the industry, but I think women in senior positions has been a little bit more challenging. And I just wondered if you could explain because obviously Taryn and Katie you both run your own businesses now, but you have worked with other people previously, I presume. Yeah, so.

Jim Banks [00:07:56]:
So perhaps maybe you can kind of tell me a little bit about kind of the challenges of kind of coming into the industry. I mean, what. What did you do before the industry sort of existed for you, and how did you get into it?

Sara Malo [00:08:09]:
Oh, gosh. I mean, myself, I was an affiliate manager. And so that was when affiliate marketing first was born. And my gosh, I don't even want to say the year that that was, because then we're going to be aging all of ourselves here. And I, you know, I just really loved affiliate marketing. I was like, I knew nothing about this. You know, when I was in college, I was taking business courses and I just was. I had to learn more.

Sara Malo [00:08:33]:
I had to know more about search engine optimization, the whole nine yards. And then I met Missy Ward and Sean Collins. And so, you know, I went to work for Affiliate Summit, part of that original team to grow that event. But, you know, women just didn't have the same opportunities in this industry. A few, you know, I would say back 10 years ago, I don't know if that's fair enough to say that time range or so, but, you know, there was very few men that were in CEO roles, COO roles. And so, you know, Link Unite was going to just help elevate that, give women those opportunities and, you know, just the courage to step up and start their own businesses. You know, when we started having calls about Link Unite and getting on the phone with these women, we realized so many people needed so much support that we didn't even realize how much support they needed. And so it was.

Sara Malo [00:09:32]:
It's just been quite the ride and I love every minute of it.

Jim Banks [00:09:39]:
So, Taryn, what's the support do you get from Lead?

Taryn Stoddard [00:09:44]:
What kind of support do I get? Oh, gosh, so much, you know, anything from new client support, prospecting to just management support, you know, of how to handle different folks. I work with suggestions on just how to run my business successfully, what to look out for, what to prepare for. You know, as a single business owner, I. That has been. And just in general, you know, the support and having confidence that people think, you know, I can do this, I can run a business. You know, it's. People are like, why aren't you doing this? You know, that kind of thing. And then I just one day, basically, a friend of mine in the industry, Sylvia Lee, she, she's like, go get your LLC and I'll give you your first deal.

Taryn Stoddard [00:10:29]:
Like, that kind of thing. She's like, let's do this, girl. You got this. I've known you for 20 years. Like, come on now. And so that's how that happened. You know, it's just sometimes we do doubt ourselves. I don't know that I would say I had this kind of ideal of like imposter syndrome or anything like that because I, you know, I'm a self confident individual.

Taryn Stoddard [00:10:49]:
But it's just that do I want to put all my eggs in one basket and just bet on myself? And you know what? When I started talking to folks about it, especially the ladies of Link unite, they're like, oh, hell yeah, girl, come on now. Like it was, that was the general consensus. And that support alone, you know, has allowed me to create the Kaiju Group, which has been wonderful. So I'm, I'm super excited about it and I, and I'm always happy to help anybody in our organization as well.

Sara Malo [00:11:17]:
You know, Jim, I just want to add another point too about the personal support that we're also bringing to each other. I mean, Taryn and Kaley are moms just like me. And we're working, we're juggling jobs, we're doing all these things plus raising children and just be able to text each other and get ideas. Just that alone has been huge for me personally. Taryn affects you a lot. It's like we're raising teenagers and it's tough. So it's nice to be able to have other like minded women to bounce ideas off of.

Jim Banks [00:11:54]:
Kaylee, how did you.

Kali Ashford [00:11:57]:
Yes, I mean I've been in this industry probably almost as many years as Sarah. So, you know, again, don't want to age us. But yeah, I remember in the industry there weren't very many. Like I entered the industry not as a C level executive, just in an account management type role and going to the shows and there weren't very many women and the women that were in the industry, they weren't helping each other, they weren't in support of each other. They weren't, they weren't anxious for other women to succeed and do well because if it meant they were doing well, then you're not doing well. And it was very much a competition and I hated that so much. I'm not a competitive person. I love to see other people around me grow and do well because the more they do well, the more I grow and do well because it elevates them and then it elevates me as well.

Kali Ashford [00:12:58]:
You surround the people, you surround yourself with people that are interested in Doing well and doing more and being better and you'll get there. And that's really what Link UNITE provided. That's really where they were like minded women that wanted to see other women in the industry succeed. And Duval, and that's the mentorship program comes in and it's so fantastic to just being someone who's been in the industry to tell someone new in the industry, it's like, it's okay. I, I've been there. I get it. I know as women we know it's hard to be taken seriously whether we're 20 years old or 40 years old. We're not taken any seriously at 40 than we were at 20.

Kali Ashford [00:13:46]:
And for men at 20 years old, it's a little bit difficult to be taken seriously, but at 40 years old, there's no problem.

Jim Banks [00:13:54]:
Yeah, it's funny kind of correlation to how happy you are doing your job. Right. So I was miserable, absolutely miserable. So I had the opportunity to kind of leave that and get involved in. I put digital marketing inverted commas because I did. I don't really think the industry existed at the time. There was certainly no YouTube. There was no communities for any description.

Jim Banks [00:14:15]:
Right. I mean, my most recent podcast episode was a guy called Brett Tabke who was the founder of pubcon. Right. And I mean we talk about sort of the origins of Pubcon back in sort of 2000, 2001. And you know, and again, it was just a. I mean, we use the term guys. I mean it was a bunch of guys meeting in the publisher, but it was a bunch of guys. I think there was probably two women that came along and the other 48 were men.

Jim Banks [00:14:40]:
Right. And I think it's evolved, but it's still probably nowhere near where it ought to be considering that, you know, women are the kind of the dominant in terms of numbers, gender in the world. Right. So I think for me it's, you know, there's definitely work that still needs to be done to try and do that, elevating the kind of the presence of, you know, women. Because unlike a lot of other industries, ours is not an industry where how strong you are physically matters at all. I mean, I know Taryn, you probably like bench press more than probably all of us. Right. But, but I think.

Taryn Stoddard [00:15:21]:
Oh, you're funny, Dar it it. But to add to that, you know, and this is the thing, I. I am very fortunate and I know that. I mean, I got my start when I used to live in California. I got my start at I Village E Commerce division in San Diego. Now the Main office was in New York, but San Diego handled all the e commerce of ivillage. And I wanted to succeed in my career and I moved back to San Francisco. And I was so fortunate to have some guys at agencies when I got specifically involved in affiliate marketing, who were my advocates, who did educate me, who did, in a word, protect me, because there were a lot of bad dudes out there.

Taryn Stoddard [00:16:04]:
And if I made it known, like, hey, look at. Listen to how this guy's talking to me. Or, you know, presenting himself and they're like, beat that guy. You know, they. They really were like, you don't have to put up with that. We don't put up with. We're not going to put up with that. We're not going to let you put up with that.

Taryn Stoddard [00:16:18]:
So I've been very fortunate to have an awesome group of men and advocates in this industry, you know, of the male persuasion. So. Which allowed me to build my confidence to help other women in our industry, too. Because unfortunately, the women in our industry, we do talk and we do know who the good guys and the bad guys are. You know, it all comes down to references, you know, and a lot of the time, you know, there's different groups, whether it's on Facebook or on, you know, in different chats that we have. We're like, hey, do you know this guy? Or do you. Have you heard this about this company or that? And we do give good and bad reviews, you know, fair reviews. Not, you know, not, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? You know, just like, trying to get back at anybody, but like, just like, okay, yeah, no, that person has, you know, they're legitimate, they pay on time, et cetera, because nobody wants to waste their time.

Taryn Stoddard [00:17:07]:
But like I said, we utilize each other as a resource regularly when it comes to business. But you guys, you know, it's funny because I have some clients who pitch offers to me, and as an agency and network, you know, I will broker out offers. They. They're like, hey, can you. Can you ask the lad if they'll run this? Will they. Do the ladies like this offer? And they're like, oh, if we can get in with that group, you know, we'll have tons of traffic. So it is, you know, it's definitely a force to be reckoned with. But like I said, I appreciate all the help I've gotten in this industry, you know.

Jim Banks [00:17:45]:
Yeah. So I always recall. So when I first started my very, very first agency, So I had three jobs in 18 months. I got laid off months, right? And I. At the end of the third one, I thought to myself, fuck this. I don't want to kind of do this again. I don't want to kind of get. Keep getting laid off by other people who don't really have my interests at heart, right? So I figured I backed myself.

Jim Banks [00:18:09]:
I said, I'll just set up my own business. So I did. I set up my own business. I kind of moved into an office. I hired a guy who, again, he was probably the. The worst digital market I've ever worked with in my life. But he was honest, reliable, and trustworthy. And on that basis, it was like he was the best guy I ever had working with me, right? Because, you know, there's a lot of skills you can kind of instill in people, right? And integrity, trust, honesty.

Jim Banks [00:18:36]:
They're not. They're the sort of things that people either have that baked in or they don't, right? And I don't think your gender matters. Your color, like, none of that matters, right? You either are a trustworthy person, honest person, right? Reliable. And people can say, yeah, I want to do some business with that person, or you don't, right? So what was really interesting is, again, I think back then, there wasn't the kind of the resource pool that was available. I think as an industry, we were tiny, right? So there was no track record to say, well, this is the sort of person you want to try and attract to kind of come in, right? So for me, it was almost like a God. I need to kind of employ people. So one of the first people I employed was my stepdaughter. And, you know, she's a sort of very, very pretty blonde girl.

Jim Banks [00:19:23]:
And I had another girl in the office, and, you know, we hired these two girls, and I'm doing some training, and I'm sort of sitting down and I'm doing some keyword research. And, you know, there was a tool called Word, I think it was called Word Tracker, and they had a tool, listed the top 100 keywords that existed, right? And obviously, you know, on those would be things like sex and stuff like that. But one of the words that was on there was milf, right? I had no idea what the word was. So I'm trying.

Kali Ashford [00:19:51]:
I'm doing this.

Jim Banks [00:19:54]:
And what you do is you type this in, typed it into a search engine, and all of a sudden, oh, my God, right? I discovered. And. And I think in that respect, it's like, you have to be respectful of the situation. So again, I've sold virtually everything you can Think of Under the sun, right? So I've sold loads of sex toys, Viagra, stuff like that. But the problem you have is that if you have people who are coming into your business, you have to respect their religious beliefs and all that, sort of. So you can't just go, look, we work on porn, so you just need to kind of go and do this stuff. Because that's what we do. Right? Because if people are uncomfortable with it, then that's not really helpful.

Jim Banks [00:20:35]:
Have you ever had any sort of situations where you've been asked to do something in the industry where you're going, I'm not comfortable doing that?

Kali Ashford [00:20:43]:
I mean, I've got.

Sara Malo [00:20:44]:
Yes.

Taryn Stoddard [00:20:45]:
Oh, yeah. I was like, where we start? Who's starting?

Kali Ashford [00:20:49]:
I think that it's important to understand boundaries and understand what your boundaries are and be open to listening to what other people's boundaries are. I think that especially for younger women, especially, it's harder to know what's okay to have is set boundaries. For people new in the industry, men and women, it's hard for them to know what those boundaries should be. Working the extra hours without getting paid, working on content that you don't agree with, whether it's political or adult or gaming or whatever that industry may be.

Jim Banks [00:21:33]:
B2B.

Kali Ashford [00:21:36]:
Have to have the checkbox. Are you okay with Mel?

Jim Banks [00:21:40]:
I've had the opportunity for. My stepdaughter has been in industry ever since then. That was probably like 2002 or 3. So she's been in the industry a long time. Right. And I think because of that, I've had a good sounding board of trying to understand the challenges that some women face in terms of the industry. Right. Because it's not always been sort of plain sailing.

Jim Banks [00:22:01]:
Right. And, you know, and now she's obviously. She's married herself, she's got two small children, so I'm kind of doing granddad duties, so. So I'm kind of taking on some of the responsibilities to enable her to kind of carry on working. I'm. I've got a bit more free time, so. Because I'm probably a little bit older and kind of grayer, so, you know, I will sometimes pick the kids, grandkids up from school and stuff like that and bring them home and feed them and what have you. Right.

Jim Banks [00:22:27]:
Because I have the flexibility of running my business to be able to kind of do that. Right. And kind of choose what to do, when to do it, how to do it, who I want to work with, who I don't want to work with. Right. So.

Taryn Stoddard [00:22:40]:
Well, I was going to add also to some of this. I think one of the most uncomfortable conversations, I'll say one for me and then one for a guy who used to work for me. So one of the things I remember being back in San Francisco, I was told one time they're like, well, just use your, your feminine ways to make it happen. And I'm like, so I sat there with my smart assery and I'm like.

Kali Ashford [00:23:01]:
What are my feminine ways exactly?

Taryn Stoddard [00:23:03]:
I'd like to know, you know, and it was, it was almost expected of me at certain agencies to be flirty, to be super sweet and taught this way to get what I needed. And I'm like, first and foremost, if you know me, I'm like, I do not talk like that. I'm a nice person very much. I'm all for compliments, but mama is sassy. You know, that's just how it is. And you know, I quite, I quite like it. And most people around me do too. So no, I wasn't going to sit here and be fake about who I was and how I was.

Taryn Stoddard [00:23:35]:
And I was told I should wear a dress more often. So I would soften the blow. I'm like, the fuck? Like, it's just like, oh, why? I mean, because, yes, this is, I mean I'm a very casual individual. But yeah, I do like to get decked out every so often. As some of y'all have seen, I can clean up nicely and when I feel like it, I don't want to be told what to do. What's that?

Jim Banks [00:23:57]:
You do scrub up well.

Sara Malo [00:23:59]:
Ah, thank you, thank you.

Taryn Stoddard [00:24:01]:
I do try sometimes, but you know, I, that was just, it was so frustrating for me to just be face to face with that and have it be blatantly told. Now the other side of thing is because, you know, we are talking about women in this industry, but sometimes the poor guys. I had a kid, I shouldn't say kid. He was a young man in his 20s, come work for me when I was out in San Francisco and he interviewed for the media buying team at one of the agencies I was working at. And he was coming from Friend Finder. And as most of us know, Friend finder was about 5% friend finding and 95% adult friend finding. And so he was managing most of their ad placement and whatnot. Is he goes.

Taryn Stoddard [00:24:47]:
And the first day he came in, I think it was the first day, let's just say it was. He goes, taryn, thank you so much for hiring me. He goes, I got really tired of Staring at naked people all day long. And I could never show my work to my parents. It was so embarrassing. Like, you're welcome. You get tired of boobs all day long.

Jim Banks [00:25:09]:
I told you that one of the jobs that I got laid off 83 times in 18 months. One, the, one of the jobs that I had was working for this, it was a telecoms company and they did basically premium rate dialers, right? So there was two industries that that was really big, big on. One was gambling, right? So they had like tips to lines where people could phone up and get tips for the horse racing and stuff like that. And the one other one was porn, right? So again, we were dealing with like bonafide porn barons. And I used to kind of like go and visit like people on site. So I used to go to warehouses where you'd have sort of like the fetish room where people would be sort of there with chains and width. And I always figured that, you know, if you were sort of in this, the room that the, the women that would be in the room or the men that would be in them, because it wasn't just for women. It was like whoever was in the room would be just dressed in normal sort of civilian clothes, but they were all dressed up in the sort of the gear that they would expect to be on, right? But what was really interesting, I kind of turned up for this job, right? So, so the guy who was my, my boss, he sort of said, oh, this is, this is Ivan.

Jim Banks [00:26:17]:
There's the toilets over there. This. We can go and get yourself a drink. Ivan's going to show you some porn, right? And I basically sort of, for, for probably the first couple of days, all I did was just spend all this time looking at porn sites. And you know, I think eventually you become immune to what it is, right? Becomes. You just dial it out. It becomes. But I think, you know, had that been a sort of a woman in that position, I think that would have been the most uncomfortable sort of introduction kind of going really? But.

Jim Banks [00:26:44]:
So, yeah, so, but, but I think, I think when I, when I had the. I had an affiliate network and one of the challenges was always like, you know, your best affiliates, you would want to try and sort of entertain them in the best way that they wanted to be entertained, right? So, you know, it would always be, you turn up to Las Vegas for Affiliate Summit, it'd be like, hey, we're going to go out. We can do a club, we can get a table in the club, we can go for a nice meal, right? And Then we go. Or we can go to a strip club. And because the majority of my affiliates were all young men, it was like, let's go to a strip club. I would find myself. And again, like my sort of stepdaughter, we'd find ourselves in the strip club. And it's uncomfortable to be there.

Jim Banks [00:27:30]:
And again, I didn't really want to be there. I just would much rather not be there at all. Right. And any of you know me now in Terry, you know me all too well. I'm the mayor of the Chandelier Bar at the Cosmopolitan Hotel, and I never leave that bar. Right. I mean, I've kind of like, I'm just there, and people say, where will you be? I'll be in the Chandelier Bar. Right? Because I just don't want to go to strip clubs.

Jim Banks [00:27:53]:
I don't want to do clubs. I've done them all. I've done, you know, I've done them to death.

Taryn Stoddard [00:27:57]:
Yeah.

Jim Banks [00:27:58]:
So. And I think in some respects, that was a. You know, I know that that was part of the affiliate manager's role, was to kind of put yourself into that position. I just wondered how you felt. Did you ever get asked to kind of do that? Was that something that you kind of got asked to do and how did you feel about it?

Sara Malo [00:28:17]:
I think we probably all have. I mean, we definitely. And it was acceptable, Jim, what, 15, 20 years ago to do that, but now it's not. You don't have to. You know, we all felt, back in the day we had to do that. And, you know, I don't bench press as much as Taryn, but, like, I'm from Boston. I have older brothers. We were raised.

Sara Malo [00:28:41]:
I wouldn't mess with me, you know what I mean? And so I always was like, I go to these things. I'd go to the strip clubs with all the men, do. Do all the parts I was supposed to play. But I was also like, don't fuck with me. You know what I mean? And so that's kind of what we're trying to teach now is that be careful of the situations you put yourself in. Nothing good happens after midnight. There's things that we kind of. We have this book that we.

Sara Malo [00:29:07]:
It's like the secret book that us women have that we're sharing with, you know, some of these new younger women coming into the industry. And there's things to do, smart things to do and things not to do, you know?

Kali Ashford [00:29:20]:
And also recently, like, I've been in a position where I was asked to sponsor an event that was associated with, or it wasn't associated with, but it was around Affiliate World in Bangkok. Right. And this event that this company wanted me to sponsor was known for having paid girls there. And I'm just like, I cannot sponsor this event. I absolutely will not. I cannot. I'm like, I'll probably end up going to the event because it's still networking and that's where all the guys that I want to talk to are going to go. So I'm still going to go, but I couldn't sponsor it.

Kali Ashford [00:30:07]:
I couldn't request anybody on my team, male or female, to go to this event because I'm going to risk being sued.

Taryn Stoddard [00:30:15]:
Yeah.

Kali Ashford [00:30:16]:
If I don't, I can't be. It's, oh, she made me go to this networking event with strippers and hookers. And it's, no, I can't. In good conscious, I couldn't do it just because that's not what I want for this industry. As a woman, I'm like, I thought we were past the strip club networking events. Nope, they're still happening.

Jim Banks [00:30:38]:
Yeah, people still want to have the entertainment, but again, I just think that there are far better ways in which you can make that happen. I remember going to Miami and basically putting a card behind the bar to take a couple of affiliates to send them up to the VIP room. And I'm like, what do I need to do to get a drink around here? And the guy goes, give me 50 bucks. I'll go next door and get a bottle of vodka. Right. So he and bought a vodka. And I sat there. Yeah.

Jim Banks [00:31:05]:
Just minding my own business. I had no interest at all in being there other than to make sure that, you know, the affiliates that I was trying to court were satisfied to this point that they would do business with me. And again, I look back now and think, that was really quite seedy. But I look at it and go, it was $1,000 of expenditure to get about half a million dollars in revenue. I'm like, that's a fair return. Right. I think have your own boundaries as to what you're prepared to do, what you're not prepared to do.

Taryn Stoddard [00:31:32]:
So, yeah, and I was going to. I was going to add, I remember, you know, I know living out here in St. Augustine, Florida, is not as exciting anymore, and I don't see as many clients. But, you know, back in San Francisco, those would come into town, you know, there's plenty to do. And I remember would take our clients or some of our publishers to, like, the Gold Club. Everybody has probably been to the Gold Club in San Francisco. And so, you know, things just start to get uncomfortable, especially as a woman. Like, all of a sudden, the owner.

Taryn Stoddard [00:32:01]:
The owner of one of the. Well, I should say the owner of the. One of my clients was, then offered me $10,000 to give him a lap dance and do all this other stuff. And I looked at him and I'm like, nah, bro. Like, I'm not going to do that. Okay. Like, let's do business and whatever. He's like, damn, I can't believe you wouldn't just take my money.

Taryn Stoddard [00:32:20]:
And I'm like, no, I, you know, I'm running a business here, and I, you know, I have other people working for me here. And so that's going to be the example that I show them. Come on now. And then, other times, like, you know, we'd bring other publishers there, and then you'd be sitting there, and then the strippers come up, the coked up strippers, right? And all they want to do is talk to you and be your best friend. Now, for a woman, this gets very, very annoying after a certain time.

Jim Banks [00:32:46]:
And then she.

Taryn Stoddard [00:32:47]:
They start saying completely inappropriate things like, oh, you have sexual tension with your client and you guys should get together. And I'm like, okay, all right. You know, after the fifth or sixth time of this kind of behavior, you're just like, okay, why am I subjecting myself to this? There's. I still, you know, add value to this relationship if, even if I'm not at this strip club, hey, I'd rather give you a great meal. Maybe I'm boring now. I'd rather give you a great bottle of wine, a great meal, and, you know, talk about things that really matter in our lives as opposed to, oh, hey, now you've seen naked chicks, Give me some more money. You know, it's just after a while, it just gets so fucking annoying.

Sara Malo [00:33:28]:
But I feel like we stepped out, you know, Karen, Like, I remember clients would be like, sarah, we're not going to sign a contract with you unless you come up to the hotel. Like, come up to my hotel room. Just, you know, in Vegas especially, just come up to my hotel room. You know, I'm in. I'm in the suite, you know, in the Bellagio. Like I give a shit that you're in the suite and Bellagio. But that's what they would do, sign a contract, come up to that. And then when we just kept saying, no, I'm not going to do that, I'll sign the contract right here in the Lobby.

Sara Malo [00:33:55]:
Then you kind of have this. Then they're like, okay, we don't have to mess with her anymore.

Kali Ashford [00:34:00]:
Right?

Sara Malo [00:34:00]:
You know what I mean? This is. She set the ground rules, so hopefully we can teach that to everybody, you know, that they don't have to put themselves in. In that position that we owned in.

Kali Ashford [00:34:11]:
You know, you don't want to go up to the room and see the balcony with the hot tub and watch the sunrise.

Sara Malo [00:34:19]:
It's like, yeah, I know this podcast is, like, you know, But I will.

Taryn Stoddard [00:34:25]:
Not say that I am, like, absolutely perfect. You know, I definitely have seen sunrises in Vegas. I've watched many clients do illegal substances.

Kali Ashford [00:34:39]:
For sure.

Taryn Stoddard [00:34:40]:
I don't need to tell anybody about it. You know, that's their business. I. You know, it's been.

Sara Malo [00:34:44]:
I've whooped it up in the club.

Taryn Stoddard [00:34:45]:
Like, you know, even in my 40s, but.

Sara Malo [00:34:50]:
Amen.

Taryn Stoddard [00:34:52]:
Yeah, right? We can still be fun. But, you know, it's like you said, it's honoring all those boundaries and. And whatnot. So I think that. I mean, I think one of the funnest times I had was with Jimmy. Like, we ended up. He made me go to New York Bills, Buffalo Bills bar in Vegas to watch games. Like, and I walk in, and I'm definitely not a Bills fan, but, hey, we had a good old time where these people were, like, yelling and whooping it up and we were drinking bad beer and we had to order pizza from next door and, you know, equally as.

Sara Malo [00:35:27]:
So true.

Taryn Stoddard [00:35:29]:
How did we lose?

Sara Malo [00:35:30]:
Did we lose Jim? Did we lose our host?

Taryn Stoddard [00:35:34]:
I don't know what happened.

Kali Ashford [00:35:36]:
Maybe this is part of it. It's supposed to be impromptu, and now we have to figure it out.

Sara Malo [00:35:40]:
We figure it out.

Taryn Stoddard [00:35:43]:
I mean, let's be real, ladies. I. I mean, I remember some fun whooping up times at Link Unite events as well. There is a picture with me in a statue, and I was like, whoa, that one should not get out.

Kali Ashford [00:35:57]:
I went my first Link Unite event. I was like, okay. Like, I just come off of some other trade show events. I was like, okay, this will give me a break from drinking, right? We're gonna be around other women, not gonna drink as much. It'll be great. I think I drank more there than I did at all the events combined for the last two months.

Sara Malo [00:36:19]:
The puss. And, you know, it's safe, fun. You know what I mean? That's what I love about it. It's like, we can. We can be together. We can. We can do business out by the pool or wherever we are. Whatever venue we choose.

Sara Malo [00:36:32]:
And, and it, it's, it's comfortable. It's comfortable. Nobody has to wear heels.

Kali Ashford [00:36:38]:
200 women pass.

Sara Malo [00:36:41]:
Right, Right.

Taryn Stoddard [00:36:42]:
Like, what's going on? Yeah, certainly. Although I know sometimes it gets a little dangerous when we're hiking in Arizona. I, I, I gotta hand it to the ladies who made it to the top of the mountain because that was. Oh, my gosh, I've never hiked in my life.

Sara Malo [00:37:02]:
Well, you know what's funny about that, Karen, is we, Amanda and I came in a couple days early in order to get everything planned, and we hiked it. And I remember saying, like, this is not for every, like, this is not an easy hike. Like, this is not like the hikes that some of these women go on. Like, I hope they're prepared. And I remember being worried about water and stuff like that. And so.

Taryn Stoddard [00:37:24]:
Oh, it's true.

Sara Malo [00:37:25]:
Definitely. Some, some women definitely turned around on that particular height. The red rocks. Yeah. That was.

Taryn Stoddard [00:37:35]:
Where you had to, like, hold on to scale that one rock, pull yourselves, like.

Kali Ashford [00:37:40]:
Nope.

Sara Malo [00:37:42]:
Or the helicopter that was flying around, you know, saving people that couldn't.

Taryn Stoddard [00:37:48]:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that was so crazy dangerous.

Jim Banks [00:37:55]:
Yeah.

Taryn Stoddard [00:37:55]:
No, you're missing.

Sara Malo [00:37:58]:
Right. And I'm all for pushing. Right. Push yourself to do things that you don't normally do, but yeah, a lot of you comfortable.

Taryn Stoddard [00:38:06]:
Yeah. And I know I built some bonds with folks. Oh, is Jim there? Is it moving? He's just not on video. I saw some movement, but it builds bonds, I think, you know, when you try to do stuff out of your comfort zone, you know, in a safe environment, it builds trust as well.

Kali Ashford [00:38:26]:
And that's how you connect. That's what the connection is. Yeah. Experiences especially that get you out of your comfort zone.

Sara Malo [00:38:36]:
I think right now, the coolest thing for me right now about Link Unite is the fact that the three of us probably know this better than anybody in this industry is walking into a happy hour and actually knowing other females there. You know what I mean? Like, I remember going into happy hours by myself. You know, no women to be found at all. You know what I mean? And so I think that's the best part. And we're, we're searching out venues right now for linky night five for 2025. So we're looking forward to getting that planned and sorted. Jimmy's back.

Jim Banks [00:39:12]:
Can you hear me?

Kali Ashford [00:39:14]:
Yeah, we can hear you.

Jim Banks [00:39:16]:
I tell you what I did. I kicked the cable out of my, like, at the back of the computer. Like, bang. It all went black. But obviously you guys were still on here. Well, that's good. Apologies for that. That's the problems.

Taryn Stoddard [00:39:26]:
Yeah, no worries.

Sara Malo [00:39:27]:
We thought this was part of the show.

Taryn Stoddard [00:39:29]:
Yeah, I was testing our podcast abilities.

Jim Banks [00:39:33]:
Yeah, it's like we. We have this program called Big Brother. I don't know if you have it over in the States, but basically they just get a bunch of extroverted people into a house, they throw in a bunch of booze, and then just walk away and leave them to it. So maybe I've done the same thing with you ladies. Just left you in the room. Unfortunately, I didn't leave you with cocktails, but I've left you in the room, left you your own devices. But, yeah, I was able to hear what you were saying. Again, I love the fact that you just pick things up and just kept going with.

Jim Banks [00:40:00]:
Without me even being here. Maybe I should do that. Maybe I'll just have. I won't even need to be on the show. I can just have you guys do the whole thing for me.

Kali Ashford [00:40:09]:
We thought you were watching us, Jim. We thought maybe. Okay, let's see how well these women can handle this without a man.

Jim Banks [00:40:16]:
Listen, I know you're well enough to know that you would absolutely have no issue at all whatsoever with handling whatever gets thrown at you. So I guess I have one burning question. So I mentioned I've got grandkids, so one of my grandchildren is. She's seven, nearly eight. So she. In probably maybe 10 or 11 years time, she's going to be starting to think about leaving school, going to find a job. What would you say? I mean, hopefully this episode will be there for posterity forever. Right.

Jim Banks [00:40:50]:
So. Well, I'm trying to kind of plant the seeds now to kind of help pave the way for people like my granddaughter to have a future. Because I love this industry. I mean, I think it's been phenomenal for me. I've made so many great friends. Right. I look at the kind of, the business side of it as a kind of byproduct of the friendships that I've made. I mean, I've made some amazing friends, including you three.

Jim Banks [00:41:14]:
And, you know, and I hope to kind of continue to kind of evolve that relationship. But what would you recommend for young people now who may listen to this episode, whether it's, like, now or sometime in the future? What would you recommend that they do to sort of set themselves up to get on and do well in this industry?

Kali Ashford [00:41:37]:
I think it would be about finding an angle that they can be passionate about. I think that I have two teenage kids. They're 14 and 15amazing kids. And as I know, Sarah and Taryn have amazing kids as well. All of us have teenagers, and they're all in that stage where they're, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? So I think we're all starting to have those conversations with our kids now.

Jim Banks [00:42:03]:
I think as far as kids, like, we. You brought them to London.

Sara Malo [00:42:07]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jim Banks [00:42:08]:
We got to sing Happy Birthday.

Sara Malo [00:42:09]:
Yes, I did.

Kali Ashford [00:42:10]:
Yeah. I think that it's important that our kids look at. I love this industry, too. It's why I've stayed in it for 20 years. There are aspects of it that I don't particularly like, but as a whole, I can't imagine not working in payments. Right. For my kids, I want to best encourage them to find what inspires them, what motivates them, what moves them. And had my kids, they took an entrepreneur class when they were like 8 years old.

Kali Ashford [00:42:46]:
It was a kidpreneur class. And it was like, okay, three things that you love. And then the next step was to come up with three problems for each of those three things that you love, and now come up with a solution for each of those problems. And that's your entrepreneur idea, because you're going to solve that problem. It's not just you that has that problem. It's going to be something you love. So you're going to be motivated to get up every day and work for it and make it work and scalable and how you can best service a problem that and fix that problem that exists. I think that's more important than pushing my kids to follow in my steps and work in payments.

Kali Ashford [00:43:35]:
You know, like, my son came up with an amazing idea for lego. I don't know how to make it come to fruition, but he wanted a Lego 3D printer, because if you lose a piece to a set, the entire set's useless. Right. So if you had a LEGO license, LEGO licensed plastic material, and you could just paid $2 and have the LEGO printed right there in your home without calling up lego, having them send you a piece, whatever. Build a custom set, whatever. It's a brilliant idea. Right? Because he loves legos, but he hates that if he loses a piece, he can't build it anymore. Yeah, let's find something you love, find a problem, come up with a solution.

Jim Banks [00:44:16]:
They're the only people that have that problem. But most people experience, or a lot of people experience the same problem.

Kali Ashford [00:44:23]:
Yeah.

Sara Malo [00:44:24]:
Yeah.

Kali Ashford [00:44:24]:
You're not the only one with the problem.

Sara Malo [00:44:27]:
So true.

Jim Banks [00:44:29]:
That's great.

Taryn Stoddard [00:44:32]:
Sarah. Did you want to go next or no?

Sara Malo [00:44:34]:
I was just going to say talk to anybody. That's my advice that I tell my kids. Now, you know, Molly's, she's on college hunt right now. She's a senior in high school and my son's right behind her is a junior. And I say talk to anybody because you're going to go into a room and you know, you're kind of taught like who you should talk to and who you shouldn't talk to kind of thing. But I'm throw that out the window. Talk to everybody. I think I've made some crazy connections over these years in this industry by just walking up to these random people and having a conversation and getting to know them.

Sara Malo [00:45:08]:
Especially in the urban industry, you know, just people working at the venues that we've had events at. I mean they, they shoot me texts to ask about my life and my kids. And you know, I see them once a year, maybe once every years. You know what I mean? It's. Talk to anybody because you know what, we're all in this together. The way I look at it, you know, and you might network and meet somebody randomly that, you know, down the road they're going to be able to give you some sort of an intro that, that's crucial, you know, so be open to anybody.

Taryn Stoddard [00:45:40]:
Yeah, I do agree with that. I love that. I mean, and it's kind of, it's funny because maybe it's like my place to say like what I'm thinking now too. My, my boys are a little bit younger, so they're 11 and 13. But you know what you're saying, finding things that you're passionate about. If anybody watches me on social media, they know my older son loves heavy metal and rock and plays guitar and he's die hard into all of that. Um, J, my younger one is, he's into baseball. He's playing on two teams right now.

Taryn Stoddard [00:46:09]:
And he's, you know, he's not the best, he's not the worst. But you know what, he's super passionate and, and improves every single day. And then, you know, it's like, hey, you're trying to, if you can talk to this person and this coach, you will learn this from that guy. And then you talk to the other coach, you're learning other basic skills too. Just like with Kai, he has two different guitar teachers as well. One at school and then one that we personally pay for. Um, but utilizing all of those, but then also your follow through and just making sure that you do the work now Whether it's practicing, you know, things you're passionate about or just turning thing in, turning things into a client. That's the difference between closing the deal is actually doing the work versus, oh, saying the yada yadas, you know, so it's, you know, being consistent with actually being passionate, utilizing your resources and then doing the work on top of which.

Taryn Stoddard [00:47:07]:
And I said, so I think that if you can find all three, you're going to be very successful regardless if it's this industry or whatever industry you go into. That's what, that would be my advice.

Jim Banks [00:47:17]:
I went to school and I did. I had a really good education paid for me, but I just decided that I was far more interested in sports, in women, smoking, drinking, all those sorts of really bad things for you. And consequently I left school with virtually no educational qualifications. So my education has really been an education of life. Right. And it's always difficult. I mean, you know, when you, when you've had success in business that, you know, came in spite of your education, not because of it. Right.

Jim Banks [00:47:49]:
It's very difficult because like my, my, I've got two older grandchildren who went to private school and they were like, why do I need to go to private school, Granddad? You do. Well, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, don't, don't kind of use me as the, kind of the template for what success looks like, right? So it's not always going to be the same way. Some, sometimes it will and that's fine, but sometimes it's really not, right. I think sometimes it is. Against again, I've always maintained you've got to be trustworthy, reliable, work incredibly hard. I mean I've worked so hard since I started working and I really wish if I could have applied myself at school the same way I did at work, I'd probably been the smartest person in the world. But know, I just didn't, could had no interest.

Jim Banks [00:48:31]:
And I think it's, I, I go back, I go to school reunions and I, I see, I remember turning up to a school reunion In I think 2002 or three or something like that and one of my teachers, I, I turned up in a, an Audi convertible and, and one of my teachers was looking and, and I, I always make a point, the first, first time I, whenever I see teachers now, I always make a point of apologizing for being such a dick at school, right? Because I really was, I was complete and utter ass at school. Right. My teachers hated me, I'm sure at the time, but they've said it's. Honestly, it's fine. You, you kind of, you've turned out okay. And that's all we look for when it comes to it. Right. So I think, you know, that's the only thing that kind of matters.

Jim Banks [00:49:17]:
So obviously, like with, with Link Unite, it's a executive leadership. I want to call it. I can't. It's a bit like I always call X Twitter and I'll always call Meta Facebook. Right. So it's like I'll always call Link Unite, an initiative, so a community of executive females. Right. So if people, if people were kind of interested in getting involved in it, what's the kind of, the best way for them to do that?

Sara Malo [00:49:51]:
Give me it. Give me a call. Just call me. Reach out. I'm the most accessible person in this industry. I feel like. Well, we all are. You know, Skype, email, text, WhatsApp, whatever you want to use, you know, that's what we do.

Sara Malo [00:50:03]:
We spend a lot of our time just having phone calls with people, you know, and we're, we're helping the mentorship husband are crucial with entry level people coming in, producing issue or middle of the road, you know, replacing them with some fabulous mentors in this industry and so that they can learn. But yeah, definitely reach out to either Amanda or myself. We will get on the phone with you and figure out what you want to do and help you in any way we can.

Jim Banks [00:50:29]:
And bearing in mind that there are probably hundreds of thousands of men like me who are bumbling their way around trying to see how they can support the women in the industry, what would you say the best way men in the industry can support the women in the industry?

Sara Malo [00:50:48]:
So right now I think an awesome initiative is the corporate membership package that we're offering. It's, you know, pretty well low cost and it's, it's six individual memberships. And so what companies are doing that don't have that many women working for them, they're gifting them out. So we have a lot of male partners that are joining up as our corporate members and then kind of giving out memberships to their clients. I have a call tomorrow with a new woman that's just joining and she was gifted a membership. She knew nothing about Link Unite, and she's so excited to meet everybody and, you know, join the tribe. So I would say that's definitely the best thing. You know, support a woman, let her get in for the membership and reap the benefits.

Jim Banks [00:51:31]:
Yeah, probably because I'm like an old fart. But again, I was Brought up in a certain way to be very chivalrous. And again, if we were in. If we were living in the times of. Putting down your cape in front of a puddle to allow a woman to step over it, that would be me, right? I'm that kind of guy. But I think a lot of women don't like that. Right. I don't need you to put your jacket down for me.

Jim Banks [00:51:50]:
I can quite happily walk through the puddle on my own. Right. So again, how do you suggest men navigate that?

Taryn Stoddard [00:51:59]:
Well, I'm going to say.

Sara Malo [00:52:00]:
Yeah, I was like, let Taryn talk on this.

Taryn Stoddard [00:52:03]:
Oh, that's okay. I was just gonna say, you know what? I still am a person who believes that manners go a long way. You know, as somebody who's highly independent, you know, I come from a big city and all that and can handle my way. But gosh darn it, raising my boys to have manners goes so far. You know, they're. I have people constantly coming back to us and say, wow, you know what? They're, they say they're please and thank yous.

Sara Malo [00:52:33]:
They're.

Taryn Stoddard [00:52:34]:
They're pleasure to be around. I mean, they're, they're. I mean, yeah, they're rowdy too, but you know what? They know they're the place to do it. So what I was going to say is that, look, we are, you know, many of us are individuals who are very independent and very intelligent in our industry. The women are, the majority of which I've met are, you know, highly intelligent. But allowing them, Allowing them to speak and using your manners and doing. So stop speaking over people constantly, you know, and trying to re. Explain what they're doing.

Taryn Stoddard [00:53:02]:
You know, just allow the woman to speak and say her piece. If you have a question, just ask them the question just like you would a man. You know, I want to confirm what you're saying here. Da, da, da, da. You know, please, I'm. I mean, that's why I love hanging out with you, Jimmy Banks. You know, Banksy, you do have the manners. You do introduce us to everybody who's around.

Taryn Stoddard [00:53:21]:
We. I absolutely adore being around you because you, you know, you have that chivalrous way about you. And I, I don't want that to change, man. And I love it when the other men do the same thing.

Jim Banks [00:53:34]:
I'm not doing it because for any other reason than I just love the people I work in this industry with. Right? Just. Yeah, just hands down, great people.

Sara Malo [00:53:46]:
I think I would respect and show up, you know, show up and support each other, you know, all three of you showed up to elevate a brand new event that Leonard and Johnstone, you know, was doing. I mean, that's so crucial, right? We were all there to support that new event and showing up and having respect for each other, whether you're a man, woman, whatever, you know what I mean? Just have respect. We're all. Life is not easy, you know, so, like, let's just be respectful for each other. It's as simple as that.

Jim Banks [00:54:17]:
Yeah. And I think, I think I know that you posted something on LinkedIn about her, but like, we lost one of our industry colleagues, Deborah Carney, who used to run the affiliate network Loxley, you know, again, she was like a larger than life character and will be sorely missed by the industry. But to me, it just like highlights how important it is to live your life and do the best you can. Because we're not around forever, right? We're all going to, at some point in time, tap out and head off. You want to try and make sure that you leave the world in a better place as a result of you being here than going, do you remember that douchebag that we all hated? He's gone now and we're apt to see the back of him. Right. You just don't want to be that person. Right.

Jim Banks [00:54:57]:
And we all know in this industry there are people like that, that people don't like the way they do business, they don't pay their bills and all that sort of stuff. And that reputation will follow you around. Right. And I don't think, again, that's not a gender thing. It's not a, you know, just, it's just some people are just naturally not nice people.

Taryn Stoddard [00:55:17]:
Yeah. And I would also like to add, you know, to be supportive and to, to talk some of your favorite females up. You know, a lot of the times I still go to events and I, I'm very quiet. Like, I know what I do. I know I can talk to a wall if I need to, but I, you know, I just kind of let my reputation precede me now because I've been doing this a long time. But, you know, you still get young bucks, if you will, in the industry. Like, oh, what do you do? What do you know about this industry? And I love. And I'll use the optismo guys as an example.

Taryn Stoddard [00:55:51]:
Like, they're like, oh, don't start with Taryn. Just, they're like, you're barking up the wrong tree. You know, they're like, she's been doing this a long time. And as soon as Like, I get this other like, street cred from my male colleagues in the industry. You know, all of a sudden, you know, the tone, the ego gets dropped and then just business ensues.

Jim Banks [00:56:13]:
Yeah. I think what really kind of highlighted. We opened an office in Hong Kong and one of the things that I obviously flew over there, I took my stepdaughter with me, I took my wife with me. And when you kind of go. Go into a meeting, right. I mean, she was, she was like, she was like leading. She was the point person in every meeting that we had. Right.

Jim Banks [00:56:31]:
So I was just kind of there just in the background and. But you know, you walk into a room and like, they automatically kind of gravitate to talk to me and I'm like, no, I'm not leading this. You should talk to her. Right. She's the one that's kind of in charge here. I'm not the one in charge. And it's, it's so difficult when that's typically the sort of the stereotype for that type of scenario. Right.

Jim Banks [00:56:54]:
And I know it's changing, but it's still think we've got such a long, long way to go. Right. So for me, like to be able to have ladies like you on to kind of talk to me today, educate me, hopefully educate my audience about the community that you have with Link Unite and obviously your participation in it and getting some really good sort of life advice for people that are either in the industry already looking to kind of get onto the next level up or looking to kind of break into the industry for the first time. Because that's my mission is, is to kind of try and help educate and develop the next generation of, in my case, media buyers. But you know, but it could be affiliate marketers or whatever, people that work in digital marketing in one way, shape or form. Right. That's what I kind of like live and breathe is just I'm there to try and support the industry in whatever way I can because the better the industry does, the better the world does, I think as a result of it. You know, I think when you look at the amount of money that's being spent online now in whatever way, obviously Cali, you pay me process all the money, which is such an integral part of the whole process.

Jim Banks [00:58:05]:
And yeah, I just think there's so much that kind of like bonds it all together that I just think it's important that we collectively work as a team to get the best results that we can.

Kali Ashford [00:58:15]:
Absolutely Love that.

Taryn Stoddard [00:58:18]:
Yeah, indeed. I was just going to add to that Jimmy, you know, like the. Let people do what they do best, you know, and you don't have to be the smartest. Everything I, I tell my kids that I go, I always ask somebody smarter than me at this or this and this. I know what I know. But if I don't know, don't be afraid to ask. And if somebody tries to make you feel less than because you are asking, that's on them. That's, you know, maybe that's not the right person you should be working with or playing with or hanging out with, you know?

Jim Banks [00:58:47]:
Yeah. You got to train people as the best. You can give them the kind of the boundaries of parameters in which they can operate. Right. Where their sort of limitations are. Because there has to be some. Right. And then get the out the way and let them get home with it.

Jim Banks [00:59:02]:
Right. Because if you try and micromanage them, I've seen so many people try and micromanage the living daylights out of people. Right. It's not going to be good for them and it's not going to be good for your company. So.

Taryn Stoddard [00:59:12]:
No, not at all.

Kali Ashford [00:59:13]:
Not at all.

Jim Banks [00:59:15]:
So, Kaylee, you're probably going to go and get cocktails now in Malta, which I'm jealous of.

Kali Ashford [00:59:22]:
Yes. I have a white party, a dinner and party and drinks and all that good stuff.

Jim Banks [00:59:29]:
We're so jealous.

Sara Malo [00:59:30]:
Yeah.

Taryn Stoddard [00:59:30]:
You look good, girl. I rock it.

Sara Malo [00:59:32]:
Hey, looking good.

Jim Banks [00:59:35]:
But I love it. Honestly, this, this, I was, I was like super nervous about putting this together. I'm so glad that we persevered. It was actually getting you on was the easy with the easiest I've had in terms of trying to get guests to coordinate. So thank you for being so accommodating and obviously thank you for taking over the kind of the conversation while I was having my technical issues. It only remains to you guys. It only remains to say that all of the ladies details will be available in the show notes for the episode. It will be available on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever else you consume your podcast information.

Jim Banks [01:00:13]:
Make sure you tell your friends about bad decisions with Jim Banks and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Katie's got turn. Lights out.

Sara Malo [01:00:27]:
Thank you. Thanks, nuts.

Jim Banks [01:00:30]:
Thank you.

Taryn Stoddard [01:00:30]:
Yeah, thanks for having us, Banksy. I appreciate it. It's lovely to see you ladies too.

Kali Ashford [01:00:36]:
Happy holiday.