Navigating the Podcasting Landscape with Podtastic Audio's Chris Smith's

So joining me today, I

have Chris Smith, who's coming to

me from hopefully sunny San Diego.

is it sunny?

it is today.

It is.

But I heard the forecast this week.

Oh my goodness.

It's supposed to be like rain.

I think in the next couple of days.

I'm like, Oh my goodness.

It was nice and sunny today.

I mean, it was sunny this weekend.

I love it.

I think you're the third

person I've had on my podcast so far.

This is, I think this is like

episode 35 or something like that.

And 10 percent of my podcast

guests have come from San Diego.

So

No way.

Who, who else?

Who else

Tim Ash, he's

from San Diego and Dave Roth.

They're

both San Diego and, when I came funny

enough in, January of last year, I

was over in San Diego I stayed with

Dave and went out for dinner with him

and Tim and, and we had a great time.

So, so yeah,

Oh, nice.

that I know that you're

there, hopefully at some point in time,

we can have a catch up and maybe go and

Oh, definitely, man.

Now, what did you guys go out

to dinner at when you were here?

What

Oh, I'm trying

to think where we went.

I'm sure

Was it by the beach?

Was it like a trendy place?

Was it like

it was a trendy place.

And it's funny.

I tell the story.

so Tim is a keynote speaker.

very accomplished guy.

He's one of the leading experts

in conversion rate optimization.

He had a company called Site Tuners.

He sold it and he's now focusing

on, being a keynote speaker.

So

that's what he does.

he travels all around the world.

So he's been to Brazil.

He's done workshops, university

lectures, all that sort of stuff.

And we were there, we were having dinner,

we finished off dinner and Tim's really

deep now into some stuff that's really

not related to digital marketing at all.

as we were leaving the restaurant, this

guy comes up and he goes, Tim, Tim, and,

and it was a Brazilian guy who was there

having dinner with his wife and his son.

And, basically he said that

he had, attended one of

Tim's lectures online, And.

Having gone to this lecture,

it changed his life.

he'd bought

that's high praise, man.

and he'd bought Tim's book.

and he asked if, if he could have a

photo taken with him and his wife.

So we stood there, we took the

photos, and as we were walking

away, I turned to Dave and I'm like.

I don't know which agency Tim got

those, actors from, but that's the best

set up, it was one of those, had you

not experienced it in real life, you

would go, that's completely made up.

That's never happened.

But honestly, it was so amazing to

see that kind of feedback, that's

what ultimately I think everyone we

know like thrives, where you thrive

for that sort of, feedback that

you get is completely impartial.

Almost like unasked for, so

Yeah.

And especially what happens in

the real world, it throws you off.

It's happened to me a few times in the

real world too, but it's puts you on a

almost like it boosts your ego a little

too much, inflates it a little too much.

It feels good though.

we all enjoy that.

And it feels great.

I, I like when somebody writes me or

texts me or tells me they listen and

things like that, it's not like throws

you off because you don't people,

you put a podcast out there in the

world and you're like, well, I don't

know who's listening to this thing.

I don't really know.

And then you find out people say, Oh,

I heard this when you said this in

your podcast, I'm like, what I did?

Oh, okay, cool.

Thanks.

Thanks for listening.

I appreciate it.

You know, that's always

yeah, I've had

quite a few people, I'm at the

beginning of my podcast journey.

I know that you're, you've

been doing it a while and we'll

come on and talk about that.

I'm so excited to have you on as a guest.

you come through a different channel

than most of the guests I normally have.

we found each other through

threads, and we'll, again,

we'll talk about

media.

Yeah.

Social media is a great platform to

meet people, interact with different

creators, different content creators.

I've met a lot of folks through the social

media platforms and I think it's where a

lot of stuff kind of gets, I guess, born.

The relationships get kind of get born

in that, in that social media spot.

If you think about it, that's what

social media is all about, really.

Social,

it's what it should be about.

I think a lot of people have taken

it and they've turned it into kind

of things that it's really not about.

that's probably one of the things

I really like about threads is,

it's like Twitter, but 10 years ago

and, where everyone's positive and upbeat

and sharing encouragement and everything

rather than dragging people down.

So,

Yeah, yeah, and there's also

a lot of fake people on, on all those

social media platforms, not just threads,

not just Twitter, X, not, there's a lot of

fake, fake nonsense too, and you have to

kind of like, Filter through that stuff.

I guess it's like, it's like anything in

life really, you know, anywhere you go.

It's sometimes hard to trust

who's really behind the thing

that's being said on online.

so Chris, to get to where

you are now with, with your company,

Podtastic Audio, you transitioned

to being a podcaster with your wife.

Before that, I think

you were a truck driver.

Is that right?

He's still a truck driver.

Yeah, that's right.

Still am.

How cool.

the reason I got into

audio, as a driver, as a truck driver,

or even if you're an Uber driver, a

taxi driver, whatever kind of driver you

are, audio, listening to like the radio

and podcasts and audio format is like.

Your thing, it's a thing

you consume the most.

And since I've been driving for so long,

audio is something I consumed for so long.

I always consumed audio, a lot of

morning radio stuff, radio shows.

And then I discovered a podcasting

probably somewhere around, I think, 2009.

I discovered a podcasting because.

I used to work the morning shift

at my other job, and during the

morning radio, you guys call them

breakfast shows and things like that.

So morning radio shows would

be a big thing here, there,

they're a big thing everywhere.

So I would listen to my

favorite morning shows.

And then when I had to switch shifts

and go work like the evening shift or

afternoon shift, like, man, I can't

listen to my radio shows no more.

What's up with that?

You know, it's got it bummed out.

So then I discovered someone

told me about podcasting.

I'm like, what's this podcasting about?

And I discovered it on my,

on my first iPhone I had.

And I was like, well,

this is kind of cool.

And then I realized that Oh, I can

listen because the morning shows were

putting like a rebroadcast version of

the morning show on a podcast version.

Now that I can take it with me and

listen to it at night or on the

weekends or whenever I'm available.

This is great.

I love it.

So that's kind of where I got started

listening to the podcast was like

the fact more of a convenience thing,

really, because I really love the audio.

But I want to be able to listen to

that same audio at my convenience,

which may not be as convenient

for that six to 10 morning slot

or whatever it is, if that makes

Yeah.

So, how did you end up doing

a podcast with your wife?

Well, like I

said, I've always loved radio.

I love morning radio.

I went to the radio station.

I was in radio in college.

And I love radio stuff.

And then I went to the radio

station probably around 2015.

I got to sit in with the morning show

and do a full, like, it was, I think

it was like six to 10 o'clock, like

whole, the whole morning show shift.

I was in there with the studio with

them, listen, watch them do everything.

I was there with them.

I was like, this is super cool.

And then, I've always loved the idea

of maybe making a podcast and And the

funny thing about getting a podcast

started for me was that it started

probably around I think 2019 when we

started the podcast, but just slightly

before that, my son was younger.

He had an Xbox, you know, game console.

And he wanted one of those headsets

that like, you can like talk to

your buddies through the, There's

a thing you can communicate and

play games at the same time.

So I went on Amazon, ordered some

super cheap like, like 15, 20

little, like one of those like

cheapy ones, you know, Amazon.

And it came in the mail, and I opened

the thing up, and I'm like, this is

kind of cool, neat, you know, and

they saw a little plug, I plugged

it into the computer, like the

old fashioned computer jack thing.

I'm like, let me plug this thing

into the computer, and then I started

like, Playing with it and I start

like recording my own voice into the

computer software somehow playing it

back I'm like, this is kind of fun.

I wonder I wonder if I make a podcast with

this stupid thing You know like we're fun

and and I was like playing around with it.

I said so Christine is a hey Hey,

you'll make a podcast be fun.

Let's just make a podcast together

and she's like I don't know.

We were just dating at the time.

She's like, I don't know.

I don't got time for that.

Come on.

I said, it'll be fun.

We'll just play with it.

We'll just experiment.

We'll just have fun.

We'll play.

We'll just have a good time.

So then I had to like, look up, like,

how do I make like two microphones go

into the computer at the same time?

I knew nothing about any of this stuff.

And so.

I'm like, well, maybe we

should get like some better

microphones in this headset thing.

And then I'm looking up like, what's

like a cheap microphone, because I

didn't know if I want to spend a lot

of money on this whole podcasting gear,

because I didn't know if we're gonna even

keep doing it past, past one episode.

So I'm like, let's go on Amazon.

I'm gonna look up like the cheapest

microphones I can, because you

can click on the dollar amount.

I clicked on the cheapest I could

find, found two cheap USB microphones.

Then I had to like research,

like, how do you get my computer?

To take both these microphones in at

the same time, how are we going to pull

that off, maybe hear each other through

headphones, if we get that going, how

do we make all that kind of happen?

And I kind of, kind of made it happen,

it get going with my old computer, and

we recorded our first episode, and I was

very nervous, like very, very nervous,

because I think for me, for podcasting,

Since I love radio so much, since I

love broadcasting so much, I felt like

I was kind of stepping into that world

a little bit, the world that I, like,

respected and, like, was, like, in awe of.

Here I am jumping in, stepping

into it with a little podcast.

And back then, I didn't know that,

that indie podcasts even existed.

I just, I just knew of the big ones,

like the big radio show ones, or

the big news ones, or the big names.

I just knew those.

I didn't know indie

podcasting was even a thing.

So then, so I'm going into this

thinking like, we're like them,

So what is an indie podcast for

the benefits of listeners

okay, I would consider

an indie podcast somebody that is a

solo podcaster that's doing everything

on their own, with independent gear,

paying for them, paying for their

own pocket, and they usually have

a day job that goes along with it.

The podcast is not their main thing.

It's like a hobby thing.

And so versus any

us?

So you're an indie and

I'm an indie, right?

I have my agency, consultancy, I've got

various communities and forums that I'm

involved with, And to me, the podcast

was I guess it was one of those things.

I was like.

On Christmas, just before Christmas,

I'm like, I know what I'm going to do.

I'm going to set up a podcast.

So

I did it and I got one off the ground.

My, my very first guest was a guy

called Jon Loomer, who I've been a

big fan of for a long time, and this

was virtually all of the people I've had

on as, as guests have been people I've

been fans of their work for quite some

That's great.

like, like yourself.

I've followed your journey on threads.

Again, you're, you're always to me.

One of the few people I see that.

Everything is always

inspiring, upbeat, positive.

It's very meme driven, very funny.

And

I like that about you, right?

I leave, I leave with humor.

If it's, if it's funny, I'm going with it.

That's kind of the way I do it.

You know, this humor is like, is

like the groundbreaking worldwide.

Like icebreaker for

everything is like humor.

Really?

That's the way I look at

I know there are people

listening because I, like, like you,

I've had people reach out to me and

say, Jim, I listened to your podcast.

It was great.

Listen to this episode.

It was fantastic.

I've had people come to me as podcast

guests because they, they watched

another episode or listened to another

episode, said they really enjoyed it and

they would love to come and talk to me.

Great.

Fantastic.

because ultimately it's not about me.

It's about people.

The, like I said, the audience,

and it's about the guests that I

have and trying to understand and

help share their stories with.

The listeners that I have, and that

audience will just gradually grow,

hopefully over time, and, if it doesn't,

who cares, at the moment I'm still having

fun doing it,

as long as you're having

fun, as long as you're having fun and

you're enjoying what you're doing, then

it's really what matters, you know, I

mean, there are people who play lots

of different sports for fun, without

thinking they're going to go pro, because

they enjoy doing it, they enjoy, they

enjoy doing it, that's kind of what I

do, when I, when I create podcasting,

I got started with the podcast, I love

audio, I love creating stuff, So when

Christine and I got going, people, like,

the first episode was very nerve wracking.

It was very nervous for me.

First one, second one, third one.

And then people said they liked it.

And I'm like, what?

What?

What?

You liked it?

What are you talking about?

It was like, I didn't

think it was that great.

I'm like, well, you know, it's fun.

It's gonna sound great.

I'm like, like, really?

Okay.

So then I thought, like, well, maybe

people, people actually, you know,

maybe we should do more of these,

you know, more than just a couple.

At first, we were just gonna do a

couple to see what happened, you

know, like a fun little, like, thing.

And I'm like, well, let's try to get, you

know, Maybe we should upgrade the gear.

By episode 20 or so, we got

better mics, an audio interface,

a little better stuff, and then

we'd be able to take on interviews.

And so, that's my whole idea

about everything was audio only.

Interviews were done audio only also.

So all our interviews were audio only.

Everything was audio only.

We didn't do hardly any video at all.

And, I started doing that, and

this is going into like 2020.

When everybody started a podcast

around March, when COVID locked down,

shut down type stuff, so a lot of

those podcasts just didn't make it.

Hit the market, like thousands

and thousands of podcasts blew

up and social media blew up with

all these different podcasters.

And they would reach out to me asking

for advice and have a question, like,

how do you make your show sound so great?

How to make your audio sound so great?

All these different questions.

And so I was like, well, I guess

I could maybe, maybe do a course,

but I'm really too busy as it is.

I'm already doing the podcast.

I'm working full time because I

didn't get shut down during COVID.

I had to go to

We were even more busy, right?

Exactly.

So, so I was like, I don't

have time for all that, but I'm

like, what if I could maybe.

I guess, maybe, make another side

podcast accompanying the other podcast.

Kind of like a, like a behind the

scenes, like, Hey, how do we do this?

If you know how, how do we make

our show sound like this or

how do we do different things?

That's kind of where Podtastic

Audio started was, was because of

that happening in, throughout 2020.

I think I launched my first episode.

It was like beginning of January of

like 21, but, but really I kind of like

started the idea of Podtastic Audio.

With people asking me questions

during 2020, how to use this

tool and that kind of stuff.

So, then I started Podtastic Audio

and, it's kind of blown up since then.

And so I've been doing it

for a couple of years now.

And I've kind of, at first, early

episodes of Podtastic Audio were

basically like the basic stuff, like

a, you use this software, you use

this kind of microphone, you cut a

microphone, you use just real basic stuff.

And then, I kind of record and

what I've used and tools I've used

and samples of things I've used.

And then I've kind of evolved since then.

I've gotten, I've done guest interviews.

I've gotten guest interviews on the other

show a lot, but I've done some guest

interviews on Podtastic Audio at first.

And I've kind of weaved away

from some of the, the generic

interviews I was doing at first.

Cause early on in Podtastic

Audio, I was doing a lot of

like, Hey, you got a podcast?

Come on, let's talk about it, whatever.

But some of those weren't very

good, to be honest with you.

They weren't very good interviews.

And the, and I feel like they didn't

really serve the audience that well.

And.

And I'm like, well, I'm not gonna do

interviews as much anymore, but if I

do do an interview, I want to make sure

that somebody's in the podcasting space,

somebody works for a podcasting company

or something like that, or, or, you

know, something, something like that.

So those, those interviews I've

been taking on of late and, now

Cause it's

definitely a challenge.

I found, with the benefits of

hindsight is 20, 20 vision, So as

you say, like when you do audio only.

The, the kind of speed at which you

can get output so much quicker if

you're doing guests, then, you've

obviously got to research the guests

and, make sure everything kind of works.

And because we're doing video, we've

got to make sure that video is okay.

I've always found that sometimes the,

you know, again, I think a lot of the,

the, people that you see kind of doing

podcasts, whether it's video or audio,

the audio quality may not be very good.

The video quality may be grainy and

what have you, and I think sometimes,

like, you can almost forgive the

video for, if it's grainy, no, no

worries, as long as the audio is okay,

So as long as the audio is good.

We've got sort of like the makings

of the episode, And I think

sometimes that's where, again, I

think people economize on the gear.

They kind of dumbed down the mic,

get the cheap one just because

they think, well, that's the best

thing, or they'll use the MacBook

pro and the microphone in that.

some of the AI tools now, like

Adobe podcasts have got that AI

functionality, which really make,

you can almost like literally talk

into your phone and it's got all

the background noise and it, it

mutes all that.

It's amazing.

I, I use it.

I use it all the time.

I use it for a client's

podcast, my client's podcast.

I record for them, but, back when we

started, we didn't have any, so we had

a couple of little things, but not much,

everything was kind of like, I had to

figure it out myself and figure out stuff.

And I think worrying about audio

only, not doing video, and I don't

think my old computer could have

handled, you Like video like this

really that well anyway, so I, so

thank goodness we didn't really do it.

We have had times where my computer

kind of crapped out during a

recording, just an audio recording.

It, it sounded okay to us as we're

hearing it, but then when I played

the audio back, it would like

garble up the audio in a few spots.

And it turns out the, old

computer had a bunch of like

dust, like around the motherboard.

I had to like blow it all off and

clean it off and that kind of stuff.

So it was kind of like, it was

getting really hot too, like so hot.

So I did upgrade to a Mac

from, from Windows computer.

So, and, and I'm on another Mac now I

just got, but, I love the Mac stuff.

It works pretty well and it works

well with my iPhone and all my stuff.

So it works pretty good for my ecosystem.

And I, I love it, that kind of stuff.

And, and I think, I think what it

comes down to is like, how easy is

it for you to create the content?

Because for me, it was like trying to

figure out how do I make this content?

I mean, how do I make the thing work?

Like how to make these

parts all put together?

This crappy microphone with this

old computer and have this software.

Like, how do I, how do I make this?

I'm worried about keeping this,

you know, car from falling apart,

driving down the racetrack.

That's what I'm trying to worry about,

let alone trying to win the race.

I'm just trying to keep

the thing falling apart.

And that's kind of where I was doing.

That's kind of where Podtastic

Audio kind of started.

It was like, hey.

I'm using, you know, basic gear,

basic stuff, probably, probably

worse gear than you're using right

now, yet my stuff sounds better.

So here's what I've been

doing with what I have.

Maybe it can help you too.

And you don't have to spend 10,

000 on a microphone and equipment

to put a good show together.

Because at the day, If you think

about it, think of your favorite

content creator, whether it's a

podcaster or a YouTuber or anybody.

Think about them and think, do you

know what kind of gear they have?

Probably not.

You probably don't care.

You probably, you, you, you

I've become too geeky.

I always look and go, Oh,

he's got that microphone.

He's got all

Well, it was, yeah, I

guess as a content creator, yeah,

I guess as a content creator,

but, but the average per, like the

person.

had no idea.

But I, I, I, again, I

sit down with my wife.

We watch the news on TV, right?

And somebody is doing an interview and,

and instead of watching and listening

to what the person is saying, I'm

complaining about how crappy their

lighting is and how bad the audio is.

And it's fair enough if they,

if they're, In, you know, Israel

and they're kind of shooting like

live from, from the field.

Fair enough.

But, you know, if they're actually

at home in a studio at home or

in their home office, they should

really, you know, again, they, they,

they take the trouble to put shirts

and ties and like dress up and look

good, But they sound awful, right?

And the lighting's horrible and they've

got light, you know, big light windows

behind them to kind of blow out the

whole, you know, picture quality.

And you think, wow, I mean, again, I

mean, I'm surprised that there's not

more people like yourself are offering

to help people kind of do that.

And again, that's probably what, what

the, the, you know, where Podtastic Audio

can really kind of help out is to kind

of help people to, you know, take some

of that headache away from them, Because

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, there are lots of tools out

now that can, like you mentioned with

the Adobe Enhance and I mean, there's

lots of different tools for creators.

I mean, I've been using a Rodecaster

Pro 2 and there's the Rodecaster Duo and

there's other tools like that, that kind

of like do, the way I describe this,

this thing is like a radio station in

a box, like everything a radio station

can do, this thing can pretty much do.

And it's, it's fairly cheap compared

to like these, this kind of stuff, this

kind of gear 10 years ago would have

been like $5,000 or something like that.

You know, it would have

been a ridiculous amount of

Yeah.

It's funny.

Like the, the, I was, I was

looking at the gear I have.

I mean, I've got a road, a Rodecaster

Pro original, not, not a two, And, and

every time I see people now they've

got the, the, the new version, they

got the two or they got the duo.

I keep looking going, I really should

kind of get rid of this and get it,

but you know, it works perfectly fine.

Does the job

right.

You know, it's not about the gear.

I mean, again, you can have

the best gear in the world.

If you don't have the right guests and

you don't really know what to say, then.

Doesn't matter,

Right.

I mean, it could be a total clown

show where just like you're on

there and, and yeah, so the best

lighting, best cameras, best gear,

best, best flashy, flashy, whatever.

But, but if the content, it falls flat

and you're just sitting there just like

smiling and not talking about nothing.

Then, then, I can't imagine anybody

sticking around for that, you know,

maybe if you're a very beautiful

woman, I think, I think those are

the ones that can get away with it.

You know, they'll just sit there and

just smile, look pretty, you know, but

even then it's like, if you're going

to do a podcast where you're actually

gonna be saying something, you gotta

have something important to say,

I know

that people are not watching my

podcast episodes on video because of

how fantastically good looking I am.

are you sure about that?

well, maybe, I don't know.

so, so you, you, you're Podtastic A udio.

You started sort of like 2021 ish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

and, and your, your,

the podcast that you did with

Chris, Chris and Christine's

show, looks like you stopped that.

Well, you stopped publishing episodes

to that sort of about a year ago.

Why, why was that?

Well, Christine,

she, she has, she has, multiple

jobs in another business.

And so it just became too

difficult to schedule guests.

We were having guests come on and

we had to keep bumping them and keep

bumping them and keep bumping them

like rearranging and different things.

And, and eventually just got too busy and

I think that she needed a break from it.

with our other business taking off, it

just became so difficult to even schedule

things, I guess, so to speak, you know,

schedule recording and things like that.

So that's kind of where

that's kind of sad.

If that's fine, you know, if, if

it's, if it's too busy, that's fine.

I'm not going to like, like

close down the podcast.

It's still going to live online

as long as you keep paying for the

hosting, it's going to live online.

So it's still there.

It's just that we're not redo, not

creating new episodes at this moment.

So I don't, I don't know when or

if, You know, the timeline for that

show to return is going to happen.

But in the meantime, Podtastic

Audio is going stronger than ever.

So, you know, I think

it's, I think it's great.

It keeps me, it gives me,

something, I guess it keeps me,

what's the word I'm looking for?

It's one like, you're, you're kind

of like always, like if you're an

athlete, you're always training,

but you're not like playing, you're

always kind of, kind of warming up.

Practicing a lot.

So Podtastic Audio is, is like,

keeps, keeps me kind of fresh and

keeps me going with this editing

software and different things.

Now, if I were to like stop cold

turkey and all of a sudden it's been

like a year and I jump back into

podcasting, I'd be like, what button

does, what, how do I, what do I record?

Is this thing even on?

Like, how do, you know what I mean?

So I think the fact that I keep doing

it all the time, Podtastic Audio not

only is a, is a good resource for,

for indie podcasters to help them

make their podcast, but also helps

me Keep me going, keep me fresh in

the game, keep me figuring out how

to record stuff and edit stuff.

And the same thing with

my client show too.

So for clients, what I do is I actually

record their show for them live on my end.

Because if you're, if you're new,

you're coming into podcasting,

you know nothing about audio, know

nothing about microphones, know

nothing about any of this stuff.

I gotta record and like, where do I

record stuff and how do I do this?

It gets kind of complicated.

So, so I said, well, here's the deal.

Why don't I send you a

link and you link into me.

I'll help you.

I'll help you join the link live.

I'll be their coach and you help you live.

I'll press record on my end.

You don't have to press

record on your end at all.

And I'll do everything on my end.

That way you can do your show and

relax and know that I'm here handling

all the recording part of it all.

Think of it like, Like a singer singing

a song in the glass box booth room and

they got the the producer behind the

glass Pushing all the buttons on the on

the console and they're recording it all.

I'm like that guy but over the internet

for them So they come in they record

their show I record their show for

them and and I use clean feed because

it gives a quick stream a quick low

latency, high quality version of their

audio directly to me and I can download

it directly and I get the whole file in

seconds through a zip file they do and,

and literally within like, literally,

as soon as we hang up the call, I can go

to work on their audio, like immediately

and have it done for them very quickly.

So that's what I do for them and I package

it all and I throw it onto their media

host for them episode's out, here you go.

You know, we'll schedule the next one.

And then, but also nice that the fact

this company is in San Diego, well,

they're, they're nationwide, but

their headquarters are in San Diego.

And so the, vice president who I, how

we deal with, he'll, he's the host of

the show and, and he, is in San Diego.

So, so our, so our time, lining

times up, isn't that, it's not bad.

I was telling him like middle of

the day and when I'm available

and he schedules and shows up

and I record it and it's great.

And do it again.

I think, you know, as much

as, you know, people say it's all

about the talent and the talent's

important, I think the production and

editing is just as important, right?

You, you know, if you can have the

best content, but if the production

and editing is kind of, you know,

hasn't really taken care of things

that need to be taken care of,

Then it will be sort of.

More difficult to kind of get

it to where you need it to be.

And again, I'm always amazed at how few

businesses have adopted using a podcast

to kind of help put their business at

the front and center of the ecosystem

that they happen to be in as thought

leaders, you know, Experts in the field or

whatever it might be, because, you know,

it's, it's such a great way of showcasing

your talent in a non kind of salesy way,

Because, you know, again, even, even

though virtually every podcast guests

that I have on is working in a business

and promoting something in one way, shape

or form, whether it's they're promoting,

they've got their own podcast, they're

promoting books, they've written, they're

promoting services that they offer.

You know, there's, there's a, there's

a good and a bad way to do that, I

think that's the most important thing.

You know, it's a bit like,

I, I run paid ads, right?

And the, the reason I think the paid ads

work is that people seeing them don't

think that they're ads, If they, if they

feel that they're being sold to, they're

gonna be less inclined to wanna buy.

Whereas if they see something that

kind of tells a good story, has a good

hook, you know, and, and walks 'em

through that journey, then I think

that, you know, they're far more likely

to, to want to engage with that brand.

So.

Yeah, well, when it

comes to building anything like a

podcast or YouTube, I, I was on, I

was on YouTube many, many years ago.

I still have a couple of, a couple of

channels I do, but, but I, I got into

YouTube probably I'm gonna say 2006, 2005.

I around Google bought it that

during that time like like so long

ago But I never looked at as a play.

I never looked at as like a I

guess Performance look at me.

I'm gonna try to grow this thing.

I'm build a channel kind of thing I

looked at YouTube like a place to put

videos to share my family because it

was hard to email A video, because

it was so big, the file was so big.

So I found this YouTube platform where

I could put a video on there that I

made, and then I can say, here, send

a link to family and friends, here,

check the video out, here it is.

And that's how I got into

YouTube, was using it as like

a family sharing platform.

And so, so that's what I've done.

And I've done some good stuff.

Fairly, you know, some of my videos have

done fairly well, whatever, but, but

they weren't like designed to do well.

I didn't design them that way

to like, Hey, check this out.

But one thing I have learned about

YouTube when I started the Chris

Christine show, the very first episode,

I listened to a lot of YouTube.

I watched a lot of YouTube back

then, but I did not watch any like.

Like podcast YouTube, it was like other,

like people doing stuff, like stuff

being done, and I had a, had a sports

car, back then when Christine and I met,

I had a sports car, and so I watched

a lot of videos based on that car, the

other content creators were doing on

YouTube, and some of the videos they

would do, they would start off with

like, this kind of crazy action scene

that kind of happened, like either they

crashed, or they did something, and

then they kind of like do their open.

And then they would go into their

like their whole video thing, right?

I'm thinking like, kind of like that

idea of having like this kind of hook at

the beginning of like something kind of

like, well, what was that just happened?

And then kind of go on to the show.

I thought, well, what if we

did that for the podcast?

Because what they were doing is they

were taking a clip of that video,

something happened within that video,

taking a clip of that and putting it

in the very front of the video to kind

of get you excited about the video.

Well, that's an idea.

So then I thought, well, what

if we did that for our podcast?

But I guess I just pull something,

pull a clip of something in the

middle, somewhere in the random in

the middle of the, of the episode,

It's always a, it's

always a killer point, isn't it?

In every episode, there's always

a killer kind of, you know, almost

like a cliffhanger or hook or

something that kind of gets people,

so that's

what I would try to do.

I would try to find something like

that, whether it's from a guest, we

start doing that, or from, or from

us saying something funny and clever,

just throwing it at the beginning, just

to kind of, something kind of like, I

guess, kickstart the interview, kind of

kickstart the episode kind of a thing.

And then, and then later with

Podtastic, I didn't do that at all.

I just cold open with the intro of

music and stuff, but then I, but then

probably, I don't know how long ago I

started doing this thing where I was

like, wait a second, wait a second.

What if I started the show saying

what the show was about and then

leading to the intro versus just

kind of cold open and whatever.

So I think that's a much better way

to lead open a show is to say, Hey,

on today's episode, we're talking to

Jim about such and such or whatever.

And, and you can't believe you

can, I could believe what he did

when he was 20 years old, you

know, or something like that.

And, and then, and just

lead into the thing.

And

was thinking the intro is

something that I think should be recorded

after you've recorded the actual.

Episode itself, because in that

way you can kind of

segue

you know, and

then you, and then all of that,

that's exactly how I do it.

So I do it and I'll record my regular

episode and then I'll stop the episode.

I think, what was the key

points about this episode?

What would be a good hook for this thing?

I just said, so then I'll just

record the hook part at the end.

And then through a clever editing,

I can just flip it around and

cut it, paste it over there.

And then I can just do a few adjustments

in audacity, which I love to use

for, for my editing, for audio.

And because you can move things

around and you can fade things

and do a lot of like, that's like

the first thing I learned, man.

When I, when I got into podcasting,

the very first thing I learned

was, was I was looking up like

audio editing software for free.

Cause like I said, I didn't want

to spend a ton of money on this.

And I didn't know if I was

going to stay around for this.

So I was like something free and easy.

So I put charge up and files in there

and different audio things in there.

I started like realizing I

could, Oh, I can move it around.

I can make it sound like this.

I can make it sound like that.

I can make it play backwards.

And I go, this is so cool.

So then I started like messing around.

That's kind of how I got, how I figured

out how to do the editing was just playing

around with this kind of stuff for fun.

And that was it, you know.

Yeah.

It's funny.

Like I know that, in all honesty, like

I'm at the point now where I probably

should go, you know what, I'm going to

outsource the editing and everything.

I really enjoy doing it.

I mean, I, it's something that,

you know, I have the time to do it.

you know, I'm kind of at the latter

stages of my agency stroke consultancy

career, rather than the beginning of it.

I'm not.

You know, you see these people, they're

aspiring to grow massive agencies,

to flip and sell, you know, and I've

been there and I've done that and

I don't want to do any more of it.

I'm just very content to kind of have

the clients that I work with, you

know, they're all good friends of mine.

I enjoy the work I have with them,

I want to help as many people in the

industry as I can, but at the same

time, it's like, I've got, Have some

free time and, and, you know, again,

I just found that I transitioned from

live events, speaking at conferences

kind of where I flew them because

of the pandemic, I had to kind of.

Reinvent myself.

So I ended up going out and buying

a whole bunch of gear and lighting

and audio and whatever else.

And, and that's, that's sort of

became something that I thought,

well, I have all this stuff.

I might as well kind of

do something with it.

Right.

So I think that's really the

origins of the podcast was just,

I've got the gear, I better use it.

And, and I just found

that I really enjoy it.

but you know, but I,

you know, I love peeling

it almost like an onion.

I like peeling the layers and finding

kind of what else you can kind of do.

And as you say, like the, the hooks

and the intros and the end screens and

all that sort of like, again, it's all,

if you think about it, every sort of

ecosystem that happens, the, the YouTube

creators, the Facebook advertisers,

the Google advertiser, they all have

a kind of a methodology in the way in

which they kind of approach things.

And.

You know, if you understand what

that methodology is, it's very easy

for you to be able to kind of fit

in and say, I know the kind of the

mechanics of how that works, right?

So the, the, that whole mechanism

that you described about the hook

at the beginning with the, you know,

you never believe what this happened.

Yes, you can kind of do more things

with visual hooks, But sometimes

the visual hooks, you know, again,

I mean, I spent, I spent, spent,

some time uploading stuff to TikTok.

You see a lot of people, they'll

grab some random object that

they have on their computer.

I mean, you see people with their,

they, they got the, the sort of the

road wireless go, receiver and they,

they kind of stick it on the end of a

fork and they talk into it that way.

Cause then that way it's

a, it's a visual hook.

People go, why is he talking to a fork?

I mean,

it doesn't make any sense.

So, so for me, it's kind of, again,

it's, I think you've got to, you know,

have something more than just a hook.

You can't just go, well, there's the

hook and everything else is crap,

You've got to make sure

that everything else kind

of slots into place.

Right.

it's like, it's like,

what are the clickbait type of stuff?

You see a lot of titles on thumbnails

on YouTube that are very, like,

it's all about the clickbait.

It's all like the, the, the crazy

thumbnail where the person's like,

ah, in the shot, you know, whatever.

And then like, You know, big words

saying, saying, I sold my house

today or something like that or

whatever, you know, some crazy thing.

And I think you're

like, what's that about?

You click on it.

But you also will notice, on

YouTube that the retention

rate is very, very, very low.

Like you'll, you'll see like

everybody clicks it at first and

then it just like, just drops off.

Like, you know, I think if you can get

your audience to stay 50 percent of

your video, you're like in the elite

club of, of, of, of content creators.

Podcasting, the, retention

rate's much higher.

That's one thing about audio versus video.

I know people love video, and I came

from YouTube before I did podcasting.

The retention rate on, on a

podcast is, is way, way higher

than than a video on YouTube.

And think about if you're on YouTube

and you're watching YouTube on the

screen of YouTube, there's all these

other pretty looking other videos

to watch to get you to click off

of that one and watch those ones.

So you're just hopping from

video to video to video.

You're just hopping along.

So different videos.

Well, the podcast doesn't really

happen because you have to subscribe

to all the, all the, the shows.

And if you're subscribed to the shows.

Then the only shows you're going

to see are the ones that you've

subscribed to if they got an update

in your phone that day or whatever.

So, and usually people put their phone in

their pocket and listen to their earbuds

or they're got to plug into their car

and they're listening on their radio

and they got to do that kind of stuff.

It's usually not in their hand.

They're not usually watching the phone

while they're listening to a podcast.

So there's that too.

So, I think podcasting is great for long

form video, long form content, audio wise.

When it comes to video wise,

I think video shines better

if you have short form stuff.

Clips, short form stuff, not so much

the long form because that retention

rate is so, so short on a long

form or any video for that matter.

So I think that I think, I think a good

video, what I've seen where video works

really well on YouTube for podcasting wise

is we take like a long interview and say

they talk about four different topics.

So then you take an hour interview,

you chop those down to 15 minute clips,

that's easier to digest on YouTube.

Now you've got four separate

pieces of content on YouTube

and you can make four separate

thumbnails and four separate videos.

things of that, and I think that's

the, the better way to go if

you're going to try to put things

on YouTube or as like a long form

interview, that's, that's just my

Yeah, I mean, I tend to

kind of like, again, I'm, I'm very,

aware of the, the, the listeners time.

So what I try and do is I try and make

sure that if they want to jump on,

jump into a certain part of an episode,

that they have sort of transcripts

that, So, you know, we talk about this

particular thing at this point in the

episode, so then that way they can

kind of go straight to that piece.

If they only

want to listen to, they want to

listen to us shoot the breeze about

San Diego and the weather, they

can kind of jump to, you know, the

introduction to whatever it might be.

So,

Yeah, that's

where a chapter comes in play.

Time Sampson chapter, whether

it's on YouTube or a podcast.

I started doing that recently on my stuff.

I found a really cool app that was free.

Someone sent me that, made it super

easy to embed chapters into your file

and even artwork right into your file.

Easily.

Like that's super cool.

And so, so clouds do it the hard way.

yeah, I mean, I, I

mean, I, I host my, my podcast.

Podcasts with Captivate and, you

know, again, they've got, you have the

ability, you can kind of do a sort of

a bulk intro, a bunk, a bulk outro.

So that's the kind of the hook at

the beginning and everything else.

But you can also kind of put the, you

know, the, again, if you, if you want to

have ad spots through your, your episode.

Yes.

Dynamic ad spots.

can have dynamic ads, but

so again, I, I've always kind of said

that, you know, I, I've always tried

to pride myself on my ability to do

what they call ancillary monetization.

So, you know, you, you might say, well,

on YouTube, you need to have, you know, a

thousand subscribers and 4,000 watch hours

in order for you to be able to monetize.

Be monetized to make money from AdSense.

And I'm like, screw that.

I don't want to kind of wait

until I've got 4,000 subscribers.

I mean, I've, I've got 360

subscribers and I started in 2012.

I think at that rate, I'll

probably be about 410 by the time

I get to a thousand subscribers.

But, but, you know, but, but

obviously what I'm able to do, I

affiliate with other partners, you

know, so I affiliate with Captivate.

I affiliate with Descript.

I affiliate with, Notion.

and obviously I can put affiliate

links to various things and I can kind

of pepper my episodes if I choose to.

I mean, most of the episodes I

have, have nothing in them at all,

There's no sort of sponsorship

actually in the content itself, right?

Maybe in the show notes.

Yep, fine.

I might put some stuff in there, but

generally speaking, there's You know,

the actual shows itself, there may be

a small intro, to basically try and get

people to encourage them to subscribe.

Probably a waste of time to do that.

you might be able to tell me to the

contrary, but, but it's, it's, but for

me, it's, it's sort of, I just want

to have the ability that if I want

to be able to do it retrospectively.

So let's say I wanted to, to do a live,

let's say I was going to do a, a live in,

in person event or something like that.

And I wanted to kind of try and get

anyone that's ever listened to a

podcast episode To know about it, I

can put that as an intro, for a period

of time, just in the run up to the

episode, the actual event happening.

And then once it's finished, I

can go back to what it, whatever

it was on, on there before.

So I'm not having to kind

of go and chop and change.

I mean, obviously with, with YouTube

videos, once it's up, it's up.

You can't go in there and do

anything other than kind of take it

down, right?

You can't unlist it.

You can't really edit it.

I mean, yes, you can kind of

trim bits, but you can't add

stuff in if you choose to.

So that's where I think audio really

Well, yeah.

Yeah.

The dynamic ads you're

talking about work great.

If like, say you're gonna do a speaking

event at this day, that day, it'll

put that ad in that spot, but it'll

put it through all the episodes.

Even if somebody went back.

As listening to episodes from a year

ago, that same current ad, for you to

be speaking this Friday, it's going to

be in those ads too with the dynamic

stuff, but you can pull them out and

change them out and things like that.

I think it's a great place to put it,

but people do use them for ads, but I

think a better place to do it is to put

it for like events you're going to be

hosting or places or things or things

happening like, like this Friday right

now, the store is selling such and

such, you know, come get it, you know,

this Friday only, and then, but it's

going to go through all your episodes.

I think it's a great place

to put that kind of stuff.

But, you know, but you don't

have to necessarily go out and find

brand partnerships or anything like that.

I mean, that's really just something

that, again, I've always said that the,

the best thing to do is if you have

services and things that you promote

yourself, doing them in your own podcast

is probably the best way to do it.

Right.

I mean, I've,

That's what

up, I picked up my

last two clients on the back

of podcast episodes, Because

they just listened to it and said,

well, he actually sounds like he

knows what he's talking about.

We've been doing it a while.

He must know, he must have some skills.

And I picked up two clients

on the back of that.

So

Yeah.

I, I've heard a lot of podcasters

that, that are so nervous that when

you hear them on the microphone,

especially if you have to do like

a solo episode, solo episodes,

hate those I've got to say.

I know people, people,

people, I just had a knack for them,

I don't know what it is, but I was

You're very good.

I've got to tell you,

Chris, you are phenomenal.

I've, I've, I kept thinking, God, he

is so good at doing that whole thing.

I don't know if you do it off a

script or something, but it just seems

little bit of both, a little

bit of bullet points, a little bit of

both, a little bit of top of the head,

it just depends, it just depends, but

But I'll get so sidetracked, the way I

do solo episodes is that First off, I

don't do them via video, because if I

did them via video, they'd be a hot mess

Because I'd be so like, okay, do I look

right, is this thing okay, you know, and

screwing the whole thing up So, they're

audio only, which takes the pressure

off that way You And then also, too,

is that because I'm recording directly

into Audacity, directly into my editing

software, I can stop at any point, if I

said something stupid, and go back, cut

that part out, and retake right there.

So I can do the retakes as I go.

So if I said, that's dumb,

let's do that one again.

And I can keep going that way.

So that's kind of the episode gets built.

It's like a lot of me screwing

up and just like retaking it.

And just like, at the end of the day, when

it's all done, it's like one solid, You

know, episode, but it's a lot, it's a lot

of screw ups, a lot of retakes as I go.

And, that's how it works for me.

And I think I couldn't pull it off.

I was doing video.

So, so that's why a lot of that

stuff's not really done video.

It's all done audio wise, but, but I

said, solo episodes, you can kind of

tell someone gets very nervous and I

think confidence on a podcast where

the video or even audio, especially,

when you, when someone hears that.

The listener hears you being

confident on the microphone,

especially like a solo episode.

They're like, hey, this guy

knows what he's talking about.

I want to work with this guy

because he sounds like he's got

his, you know, his stuff together.

Like he sounds professional.

He sounds legit.

He sounds like, like, he's

like, oh, not fumbling.

I think I've heard some shows

where people sound so nervous.

They sound like they're

all fumbling and nervous.

the stupid thing is.

So I mean, I've traveled Loads of places

and delivered keynote presentations.

I've stood in front of 1500 people and

done live kind of like presentations,

you know, one day workshops, but stick

me in front of a camera and a microphone.

I just go to pieces, If

it's just me, if I'm just

trying to do a solo thing.

I'm in pieces, Which is probably

one of the reasons why I opted to

go down the route of doing podcasts

with guests, Because then that

way, I've got a little bit of, you know,

somebody I can kind of bounce stuff

off.

dude, I was, I

was the same way too, man.

When I started the pod, that's

why I started, that's why

I asked Christina to do it.

When I first got started, I asked

her to jump on and do it together

because I didn't, I didn't know.

Like, I don't think I could carry a

show by myself or anything by myself.

I kind of wanted that.

That kind of conversation, that

back and forth, that kind of

like bounce back and forth.

And then we bring guests in when you have

two people doing a guest interview, it

does get a little like awkward at some

points because now you're thinking like,

Oh, who's going to ask the next question?

Are you asking or am I asking?

And being that we are audio only,

we were able to give it to their

hand signals across the room.

Yeah.

Like, okay, you're next.

Okay.

Now I'm next.

And you know, like, like, you

know, like that kind of stuff.

And there's sometimes some of the

hand signals got kind of so funny

because sometimes we have a guest

on and it's really, really boring.

And so we, I do like the whole like, God,

like we do those kinds of things while,

while we're like, she's like, knock it

off, get, pay attention, you know, pay

attention, you know, while we're doing it.

And so having the freedom of being

audio only gave us the flexibility

to be able to like do hand gestures

behind the scenes and do things

behind the guests couldn't see.

So it'd be kind of like, no,

you're asking the next one.

Yes, we have a, we have like a list of

questions, you know, you're asking this

one, no, I'm asking that, you know,

kind of all, you know, right in the

same room, which kind of worked out.

So if you were doing video, that

would have worked out at all.

You know.

So,

Interesting.

I just wanted to, if you had some

quick tips for being a really good

podcast host, and then some quick

tips of being a good podcast guest.

okay, let's

start with the easy one.

Being a good podcast host.

being a podcast host is about

delivering value to your listener.

And before you even know, do

that, I guess you gotta know

who your listener really is.

But being a good podcast host, you need

to have a clear message on, I'm gonna

do, I'm gonna talk about this, this,

and this, and it's for this person.

But you gotta know exactly

what those things are.

You can't just jump in saying, I'm gonna

talk about, you know, my dog today,

cause I feel like it, or whatever.

And.

But, you are making a, a episode, you're

making a A show, hopefully, for someone

to listen, other than, you know, your mom

or dad, but maybe you don't, I don't know.

So, so you want to make sure you

want to know who that person is, or

get an idea of who that person is.

For me, like with Podtastic Audio,

the listener I have in mind for that

show, Is somebody who is an indie

podcaster doing it by themselves,

just maybe a laptop and a microphone.

They work a full time job.

They're, they're doing this

as a hobby on the side.

Maybe someday they like to go pro,

but they're not, they're not pro.

When I say pro, I mean, somebody

that is physically like has

money backing the podcast.

They've got a producer, they've

got multiple producers, they've

got a company behind it.

If the podcast is not making

any money, They're done.

They're not, they're not continuing.

They don't want to do this anymore.

But an indie podcaster is having fun.

They're enjoying this.

It's a hobby.

They love it.

They do it for the fun of it.

That's why I consider like a hop indie

podcaster versus like a professional one.

So know who exactly who you are.

And that's who I serve with my

show and, and try to deliver

as much value as you can.

To that person, at the same time, try

to make it entertaining and fun and

have a fun personality if you can.

I mean, some people come on and

they're just like reading a script,

you know, line by line, you know, A,

B, C, D, and they go through it and

it doesn't sound very entertaining.

There's no personality behind it.

they come, people will come to your show

for the content, but they will stay for

the host and the host's personality.

Because there would be multiple shows

that have covered the exact same thing.

But do you realize you'll like lean

towards one more than the other?

I always kind of wonder, why is that?

Oh, it's because I like that person.

Or that person.

Same thing with morning radio.

Same thing with the news.

Same thing with anything like that.

They'll be covering pretty

much the same thing.

But you'll like one host over the

other because you like that host

better than the other person.

Even though it's the same content.

So, the content's cool and all,

but you want them to stick around.

You gotta have a good

personality and good hook.

Now, being a good guest

That's a tricky one.

I've only been a guest a few times.

So, being a guest

been a good guest to me.

I've got to,

Oh man, I think being a good

guest is about listening to what the host

is saying and what questions they have

coming up, what they want to talk about.

Also have your talking points kind

of figured out too, like being

a good guest, realizing that you

are coming on this person's show.

Because you are an expert in these

things, or you know these things, and

you're talking about these things.

So kind of have those things kind of ready

to go, kind of in the chamber, as they

say, so that when the guest comes on,

you're not just like, oh, I don't know,

I'll talk about anything.

I

Yeah, well, not

only that too, I think, having

reps too, I think helps out too.

We've had some guests come on the Chris

Christine Show that were That did not

want to, they did not want to go off topic

because we were very conversational and

they, they didn't want to like, they want

to stick to the script, whatever they

had in mind of what they're going to say.

That's all they wanted to talk about.

Nothing else really.

And then he had other guests that

were great that were just like

talking about all kinds of things.

Oh, hey, whether San Diego and talk with

different place to eat and, you know,

and, and this kind of stuff and how

you're going to have the kid, oh, wait,

a kid stories, story, story, stories.

That all comes down to stories.

As a guest, have great stories

that serve the audience and

know who you're talking to.

And a good story and not only a good

story, but told in a very, and I guess

entertaining way, but also kind of an

intriguing way that keeps the listener

hooked and curious to what happens next.

So, and deliver value best

way you can to, to serve that

audience that you're coming on.

yeah, that's, that's what

I can say about that.

like I said, I, I

mentioned before, like virtually all

of the guests I've had that they're

promoting something is either a

service, a book, and I'm absolutely

fine with, with talking about that.

I mean, again, for me, it's,

it's an important part of, part

of the reason why they're on.

I mean, usually

I, I end up kind of trying to get the

book and read it, read it before I kind of

have people on, so I can kind of do that.

I know that I saw on, on your website that

you're in the process of writing a book.

I mean.

That's

it off, hats off, I appreciate

the, anyone that can kind of do that.

I've got like Xerox, I can

just about get through reading

a book every now and again.

I couldn't even imagine what it

would be like to write a book, but.

Yeah.

Well, well it takes, it's like, it's

like the same way I read a book, same

way I write a book, it's like little

by little, little, little by little.

And with so many different tools we have

now at our disposal with the iPhone,

you know, you can write to that thing.

I've got, I've got three Mac, Mac,

no, I've got two Mac computers and

a, and a, and a iPhone, so I can, I

can pretty much like, the nice thing

is that when you write into one,

it's like saving all three of them.

So it's like kind of.

If that makes sense, so it

makes it easier that way.

So they have no like pen and

paper and the old fashioned

way or whatever, how it goes.

And then we also do with podcasting

too, is that it helps out having a

lot of these ideas already kind of

already put out there and you get the

transcripts for that kind of stuff.

That way we have an idea

to put things together.

So it kind of helps having content

already out there that, that you've

already put down, even though it's

not written down, so to speak,

it's been, it's been laid down.

So, that helps.

interesting.

I think, a lot of people

think that it's all new.

And I know that obviously I mentioned

there about the, the Rodecaster Pro, the

new versions have come out, it's probably

been four versions since the one I've

got, but at the end of the day, it's about

the principles of things that matter.

And I think when you look at it,

the fundamentals and the principles

will, will stay the same throughout.

Even if the gear changes, the

underlying things will always still

be about that telling stories and

the hooks and, you know, being

sort of friendly and convivial and.

and, Helpful and

you know, and again,

understanding who your audience

is,

I mean,

I think that's probably the

biggest challenge I've had

is I started off the podcast.

It was originally called Bad Decisions

with Jim Banks, but it didn't really

make any sense, Because everyone's

made bad decisions, And I wanted

people to come on and share them with me,

But then I changed the name to

Digital Marketing Stories because

I felt it encapsulated more about

its stories about digital marketing.

It's sort of, it's more

obvious kind of what it is, And, beauty

of a podcast, you can change the name.

Obviously, I've got a website that

probably doesn't really reflect

the new name, but that's by the by.

I'm not going to go and create a

new website just for the sake of it.

I think sometimes if you're planning

a podcast, you probably need to think

far enough ahead to think of maybe

some contingency, just in case, well,

if this happens, I might need help.

but you always can

change anything and everything.

I changed my artwork before, I

changed the title a couple times,

you know, I put a title extension,

but I've changed the artwork, changed

the website, changed hosting plans,

changed microphones, changed equipment,

changed whatever, changed computers.

So, I mean, you can change

a lot of different things.

Nothing's set in stone.

you always can change stuff as you go.

And I think that the thing is people

think they jump in, they go, I'm

going to name my show The Chris Show.

That's great.

What does it mean?

What does it tell anybody?

What does that mean?

Nobody's searching The Chris Show.

Unless I'm somebody famous, but

other than that, I'm not famous.

So, so why would somebody search that?

So, but I've already built the website.

I've already built the,

you know, all this stuff.

Maybe think those things

through before you, jump in.

And another big thing that people

Don't do, and I did an episode recently

about this, is that people do not get

feedback on their podcast, like, honest

feedback on their podcast, like, ever.

And I think the reason why is

because we're afraid of it.

Like, we don't want to know that

we may be doing the wrong thing.

We're, we spent hours on this podcast.

Like, I don't want to hear that.

It's, it's not that good, you know?

So it's, it's hard, it's

hard to, he'll hear that.

I

It's funny, I remember, one

of the podcast episodes that, I put

out, So, I was typing, again, being

all Mr. Vain, I was kind of typing in

bad decisions with Jim Banks and I came

across this link and I thought, well,

that's not my, that's not my website.

And, and, I'm sure you know him, There's

a guy called Dave Jackson, who's like a,

an award winning multi talented podcast

journalist.

Guru, right?

Everyone's kind of,

everyone raves about him.

I think he's actually just started

working with PodPage, and he's,

is his website School of Podcasts.

and basically he, he found one of my

episodes, And basically roasted it.

And

initially I was like

really pissed about it.

I'm like, wow, how dare

he kind of take it.

But I thought to myself, this is somebody

who, you know, again, if I wanted to

hire him as a consultant, probably

would have charged me a ton of money.

So, I thought.

I'll just take the feedback in the

spirit in which it was given, I

didn't ask for it, but I'll take it

because he's kind of given me what

I thought was really good feedback.

I mean, as it was, I think on his

website, he had a buy me a coffee.

So I sent him a couple of bucks to kind of

thank him for doing that.

But, you know, but it's sort of, you

know, you look at it and you think, well,

You know, again, as you say, like you

should go, go and ask people what they

think and not because you want people

to leave reviews and everything else.

Again, I just think it's kind of, it would

be so easy for me to go and go, And I

get, you know, 15 fake, you know, profiles

set up and leave 15 fantastic reviews.

Meaningless doesn't mean a thing,

Won't change anything in terms of how

I feel about it and how the people

that listen to it feel about it,

As you say,

if people like it, they will tell other

people about it, they'll come back

and listen to more episodes, Share

it with other people, I mean, that's

what you want, That's ultimately,